Its ffxiv combat really so slow and boring?

[LauraAdalena]

Combat is boring because it's a stagnant, static skill system: each player has the exact same skills as others of that class. There's no variety or creativity like in build-based systems. The simplicity is mind numbing, and rote memorizing the "optimal rotation" of your tiny pool of abilities is the opposite of enjoyable.

At least healing and tanking is a dynamic enough experience to stimulate some brain function.

I'd just like to ask people who play other MMOs how "build-based" systems are better than this. Because, from what I've heard of these "build-based" MMOs like WoW (which you get one class per character and from what I've heard you have to uproot everything to re-build), if you are not the optimal build people refuse to play with you essentially. So, essentially everyone is optimal build all the time so how in the world is a "build-based" system where everyone has THE EXACT SAME BUILD any more "various" than Scholar has this, dragoon has this, paladin has this, end of story. In fact, it sounds like the PLAYERBASE is doing what the devs of this game have done in that respect, which is limit everybody to having the exact same "build".

The only game that I can think of where builds really make a difference and actually are various and changed things is Warframe... but that's not really an MMORPG, but an MMO

Honestly, I'd rather NOT have a build-based system in FFXIV if it allows players to discriminate against others for dumb reasons.

[OurMom]

I'd just like to ask people who play other MMOs how "build-based" systems are better than this. Because, from what I've heard of these "build-based" MMOs like WoW (which you get one class per character and from what I've heard you have to uproot everything to re-build), if you are not the optimal build people refuse to play with you essentially.

One class per character doesn't really bother me, I don't have everything to 70 and I don't see the need in leveling things I don't plan on playing.

Also the whole "People wont play with you if you aren't cookie cutter" is over exaggeration. If you can pull it off, do it well and not be a complete leech most people don't care. Or they may ask you to swap builds for one particular thing a week.

[LauraAdalena]

One class per character doesn't really bother me, I don't have everything to 70 and I don't see the need in leveling things I don't plan on playing.

Also the whole "People wont play with you if you aren't cookie cutter" is over exaggeration. If you can pull it off, do it well and not be a complete leech most people don't care. Or they may ask you to swap builds for one particular thing a week.

The one class per character thing was not really an important part of my comment? I personally don't enjoy being limited on what I can explore with one character, but that's just personal. I was just mentioning it because it tied into the build stuff.

The "people won't play with you if you aren't cookie cutter" might be an over exaggeration, just like how some people claim about XIV that there are a lot of players who won't play with you if you aren't meta. I was just asking if it was or if there was something I was missing on the "build style." (And maybe it's because I'm a Scholar, but I don't see too many. Most of my groups have been joking about meta and what they prefer.)

I also personally don't enjoy spending long hours on a specific "build". And maybe it's because 90% of the RPGs I've played are JRPGs and don't have those long skill trees and stuff.

[Aylis]

I'd just like to ask people who play other MMOs how "build-based" systems are better than this. Because, from what I've heard of these "build-based" MMOs like WoW (which you get one class per character and from what I've heard you have to uproot everything to re-build), if you are not the optimal build people refuse to play with you essentially. So, essentially everyone is optimal build all the time so how in the world is a "build-based" system where everyone has THE EXACT SAME BUILD any more "various" than Scholar has this, dragoon has this, paladin has this, end of story. In fact, it sounds like the PLAYERBASE is doing what the devs of this game have done in that respect, which is limit everybody to having the exact same "build".

The only game that I can think of where builds really make a difference and actually are various and changed things is Warframe... but that's not really an MMORPG, but an MMO

Honestly, I'd rather NOT have a build-based system in FFXIV if it allows players to discriminate against others for dumb reasons.

I tend to prefer build games and one character one class games just for the sole reason of stopping a very good chuck of loot arguments at the end of a run. Anyway while I'm sure build discrimination happens even if I've never or known anyone to be a victim of it. FFXIV may not have build discrimination, it does however have meta discrimination as I've seen people talk about it. The whole "No! Ninja stinks for this fight! You play bard or get ou!" instead.

[LauraAdalena]

I tend to prefer build games and one character one class games just for the sole reason of stopping a very good chuck of loot arguments at the end of a run. Anyway while I'm sure build discrimination happens even if I've never or known anyone to be a victim of it. FFXIV may not have build discrimination, it does however have meta discrimination as I've seen people talk about it. The whole "No! Ninja stinks for this fight! You play bard or get ou!" instead.

And just like how you don't see build discrimination, I don't see too much "meta" discrimination. I see people who prefer meta, I see people complain about those people and I acknowledge it exists. But not kick because they aren't. (Also melee to ranged phys because of a specific fight is a bad example. And if someone is claiming that's meta they should be shunned).

[Aylis]

And just like how you don't see build discrimination, I don't see too much "meta" discrimination. I see people who prefer meta, I see people complain about those people and I acknowledge it exists. But not kick because they aren't. (Also melee to ranged phys because of a specific fight is a bad example. And if someone is claiming that's meta they should be shunned).

No different then I see people squabble about builds, but never seen anyone kicked. Also my example was just using the first two classes that popped in my head and nothing more.

[Dualgunner]

I tend to prefer build games and one character one class games just for the sole reason of stopping a very good chuck of loot arguments at the end of a run. Anyway while I'm sure build discrimination happens even if I've never or known anyone to be a victim of it. FFXIV may not have build discrimination, it does however have meta discrimination as I've seen people talk about it. The whole "No! Ninja stinks for this fight! You play bard or get ou!" instead.

I rather like XIV for letting me level everything on one character. If I have to or want to play something else for a tier, I don't have to level an entirely new character for it; yes I need to level the job itself up, but that's a one-and-done thing. I don't have to repeat MSQ again, I have several XP buffs for leveling up, as well as crafted gear that I can make myself. Then I can switch back and forth pretty freely any time I want.

Also, lol you couldn't have picked a worse job for this hypothetical. If you said "Samurai" or "Black Mage," maybe.

[Shurrikhan]

Combat is boring because it's a stagnant, static skill system: each player has the exact same skills as others of that class. There's no variety or creativity like in build-based systems. The simplicity is mind numbing, and rote memorizing the "optimal rotation" of your tiny pool of abilities is the opposite of enjoyable.

At least healing and tanking is a dynamic enough experience to stimulate some brain function.

But then you'd just play like everyone else with your build of your class, whilst the majority of possible builds are far from optimal for the given fight...

You'd just be taking would-be in-combat (i.e. gameplay) decisions as made possible through simultaneously available skills with shared opportunity costs and instead forcing it into out-of-combat menus. That's all the fun of having to recraft your ammunition before the start of each fight.

Don't get me wrong; I like character customization. But unless that progression system is uncapped and almost entirely open, with choices inherently flexible even while permanent, it has no bearing on gameplay, only on theorycrafting (or, for the vast majority of players, website browsing).

It's not a matter of illusion of choice. That'd already be inherent in having more than one or two jobs of each role if not for the limit gauge gimmicks, and anything other than the optimal or basically optimal meta compositions even with it. It's a matter of fundamental conflict in purpose. If the goal of customization is to allow for difference and personal exploration of all the world has to offer, combatitively speaking, then that's not going to be found in menus. It's going to be found in quest lines, achievements, factions -- essentially, your tour of the world and its techniques -- where you make best use of whatever you have available. And it requires a much more mechanically deep and fluid system beneath combat than XIV offers in order to allow such a vast variety of builds to contribute competitively, along with greater distinctions in the sites and extents of that content (everything from sieges to espionage to dangerous environmental exploration).

[Keicho]

the combat is slow yes, but its perfect.

u have to choose which way you go, debuff enemy, strenght yourself.. dot the enemy.. and not just faceroling over the keyboard.
i hate ppl dont play ffxiv bcs the combat, bcs its such an amazing game
ffxiv is for me moorpg number 1, i play sometime other games but not realy activ.


the game is good how it is. and it isnt feeling slow in late game

and tbh, u cant use all ur skills while doing the raids, taht isnt posible. and there the problem. while other ppl walking slowly to do a raid mechanic, pro players would be much faster and hold cds many beter down (in fast combat) so they have like 3-4x more dps. and tahts the problem. boss will be down in few mins bcs SE has to support casual players to.

so its good how it is. its perfect. do t he fights hard, not the combat fast.

[PyurBlue]

At low levels it does feel rather slow, I think even casual players may feel this way. Things do get better at higher levels though and I wouldn't call FF14 boring overall. It doesn't have the best combat system, but the devs have managed to make it pretty engaging for what it is I think.