How to deal with non contributing players

[Corvanther]

I don't want people to get every box, every silver box maybe, or kill everything, especally past floor 50. I do want them to at least help a little, not just be lazy and let the rest of us power level them.

[RiyahArp]

My only idea why you would say that is

The OP's example read a lot more like a speed runner versus an explorer/weapon leveler. Not someone idling 100%. Because if your 99/99, you tend to run to the exit, and you don't need 4 people killing mobs in 21-30. The titan thing, yeah thats not good but he is down often in a minute.

Honestly the simplest solution is to just integrate some generalized anti-carry/anti-leech mechanic

these don't work. Like beyond a point, you cannot make an anti leech thing. Player will rubberband a controller to go in circles to prevent an idling. You have to empower the player to deal with them, vote kicking does that. reporting is there for times vote kicking cant work or help, or for much more heinous stuff. it's sad but you cant fix people that way, and you can actually make something worse by doing it.

[KisaiTenshi]

these don't work. Like beyond a point, you cannot make an anti leech thing. Player will rubberband a controller to go in circles to prevent an idling. You have to empower the player to deal with them, vote kicking does that. reporting is there for times vote kicking cant work or help, or for much more heinous stuff. it's sad but you cant fix people that way, and you can actually make something worse by doing it.

I'm not talking about "anti-idle" stuff. I'm talking about actually counting the interactivity... the same kind of thing could detect bots too. If players will not kick an abusive player because it will cost them time, the system should go "hey is it okay if I kick this guy?" and not penalize the players who want to complete the content for it. As it is, you can't kick players at the beginning of a dungeon, and if you leave the loot window open, you can't until everyone rolls, so you're stuck waiting at least 5 minutes doing nothing just to kick someone.

I agree there will be people who flaunt any loopholes the game creates, but they would be doing that anyway, so let's not pretend that "there may be a legitimate player" that might be impacted by auto-kick rules and instead make it the party decision to early vote kick based on specific anti-leech/anti-carry rules. That at least move the goal post from "the player is doing nothing" to "the player is forced to participate or be ejected"

Can't speak for HoH but for PoTD that is absolutely not true unless you all are close to the worst players in this game. I practically live in potd and have to kick 1-2 other people and ended up trioing or duoing the place just fine. If you guys are that bad where losing one player sets you back, that's not the game nor the community, that's you.

1-50, you can solo/duo/trio just fine at 50/50, 50-90 you can typically solo/duo/trio if already at 99/99 or near it. 90-100 is harder without the pomanders, and if your party won't open the chests, then the boss is just harder. The levelsync on the items typically runs near to the level of the dungeon, so if you've outleveled it, it's really of no consequence, but you could previously spend 90/90 to pull the weapon out to use on the field, so you may end up with a party of 99/99 + three 10/10's if you're unlucky, and they will feel like dead weight.

Good thing I specifically mentioned killing everything and getting poms and nothing about those silver chest for a non capped player

Personally, I assume that if everyone is at 99/99 we can skip the silver chests. This is usually made obvious by the color of the weapon. But you're going to have players who want to pick up every chest, no matter what. Even when I play PotD/HoH I head to the exit teleport if the party has split up and it's unlocked, because unfortunately you will get players who do all split up, either to do it faster, or because that's just how they've been zerg'ing it the entire time.

I rarely see any party head straight to the teleport before it's unlocked, though sometimes players will head to the teleport and then realize someone got left behind, because they either hit a spawn trap or opened a mimic chest.

[NameGoesHere]

If the floor ends in nine, it's kicking time.

[Darrcyphfeid]

This is a very coddle toxic game where the community is perfectly fine with calling out people that demands competence from the rest of the party and are also very protective of players that are lazy and/or lacks basic understanding of their job and game mechanics and is in content where they shouldn't be. Due to this reason, the only options left to you are either try to vote kick the leeches, which is on a 4 hours long cooldown. Vote abandon, which isn't likely to go through. Or just leave by yourself, in which case you'd have to eat a 30 minutes penalty for.

Yup. Should've been the first post.

People go along with it because the only way they get anything done is by carrying people like that, or by becoming one themselves and having others still carry them. "Difference in play style" allows for so much covering it's kind of hilarious.

Alternative solution is to just never play with randoms and only with friends, which is sort of contradictory and also kind of out of sync with the concept of an MMO. But y'know.

[MicahZerrshia]

When it comes to ppl who don't fight and just sneak through to idle at the portal before its unlocked I always seem to get the itch to unlock the entire map, kill every mob, get every single chest and sometimes when I am on the far side from the portal my finger slips and I hit the / button by accident reducing me to a slow walk and heck if I can ever remember how to turn it off before I am in visual range. Then for some strange reason the vote kick somehow gets activated and they disappear but always at the floors that end in 9. It's strange how this happens every...single...time.

[MoroMurasaki]

Doesn't change the fact it's true. Let's not dwell on that here though.

Honestly the simplest solution is to just integrate some generalized anti-carry/anti-leech mechanic where the entire duty is considered a fail if either:
a) A player is "KO" longer than 60 seconds/fails to revive within 60 seconds of a revive cast.
b) A player is "auto-following" or standing still without being in combat stance once another party member is in combat stance. If a (trash) fight ends without the player doing anything, then they become subject to auto-kick.
c) A player (specifically in 24-player content and frontline content) that "camps" in the zone-in/spawn location without moving after the first player KO's.

Less dwelling and more just pointing out how deep and creepy the obsession with 'some irrelevant statistics site's goes for some. Almost like you want to discuss it...

I think the issue with creating a new system like that it's not really a very common problem so the likelihood of SE directly addressing it seems slim. Don't get me wrong, I would be in full support of changes like the ones you proposed... I just think we're unlikely to see them.

I'd rather give actual, helpful advice to people on how to handle these problems within the toolkit that we have now than spin a pipedream about entire new anti-botting initiatives.

There's another botting problem that we can all see after all - there's one that's been reported on Cactuar literally hundreds of times by dozens of people and yet SE has taken no visible action. This isn't the only case of bots being mass reported with no consequence. Surely SE could make some kind of program to deal with these people but they haven't. Expecting them to alter their established behaviour seems a little bit unrealistic.

Then again on the OF unrealistic ideas are sort of the norm. Carry on all \o/

[OurMom]

1-50, you can solo/duo/trio just fine at 50/50, 50-90 you can typically solo/duo/trio if already at 99/99 or near it. 90-100 is harder without the pomanders, and if your party won't open the chests, then the boss is just harder.

Me and a buddy duo'd to 150, again if you're struggling pre 150, that's a player problem. Also not opening chests at all is not what most parties do, people just dont like it when someone goes out of the way to get chests even when the portal is up. Most people grab coffers on the way no problem.

I rarely see any party head straight to the teleport before it's unlocked

I don't really see this happening either.

[JunseiKei]

Refusing to participate in content (as in, bolting straight to the portal and not doing anything other than self-preservation) is against ToS. It won't help YOU while it happens, but reporting that player may help people in the future.

If such actions would be properly reported and ToS properly enforced, people would stop doing such stupid things. If you're bored of the deep dungeon then don't use it, simple. Normal dungeons offer perfectly fine experience as well at all levels. Just go for the highest one available and you'll be able to switch em every four-six runs, I reckon.

What rule is it breaking? From what I can recall, this behavior doesn't break ToS; it's just a really scummy thing to do and rectified with a vote kick. Nothing that requires a GM's intervention.

The closest thing that it could fall under would be "disruption," but as you're still actively able to clear the floor if they bee-line for that portal, it's actually not disrupting your gameplay - just making it take longer. In that event, they are retarding your run, not disrupting it.

[KaldeaSahaline]

Refusing to participate in content (as in, bolting straight to the portal and not doing anything other than self-preservation) is against ToS.

Mind linking to the section of the ToS where this is said? Because last I checked that would be considered a "difference of playstyles" and is a player moderated behavior, not an official one.

..and when you get reported because 3 people want to speed run it for exp and you keep straying off to other rooms to get chests? You have to be careful not to weaponize reports too much; they should only be a last resort after actually talking to a person then kicking them, i.e. using the tools at hand.

It's exceptionally rare that you and I agree on something or that you compose a legitimate point, but I don't think I could have said it better. Kudos.

I'm not talking about "anti-idle" stuff. I'm talking about actually counting the interactivity... the same kind of thing could detect bots too. If players will not kick an abusive player because it will cost them time, the system should go "hey is it okay if I kick this guy?" and not penalize the players who want to complete the content for it. As it is, you can't kick players at the beginning of a dungeon, and if you leave the loot window open, you can't until everyone rolls, so you're stuck waiting at least 5 minutes doing nothing just to kick someone.

So to be clear, you want the dev team who designed LoV, Eureka, Diadem, can't stop pvp wintrading, and can't deter bots, etc. to try and design a robust anti-leech algorithm that detects and punishes players, and have it pass QA with minimal false positives?

As if.