The toxic Pagos bottleneck and how to solve it

[WhyAmIHere]

Griefing other players is the only option available to us. The monsters for light grinding are an extremely limited resource and there are so many players. So if you form a group and find all the monsters your group needs are currently occupied by other groups your only option are give up and quit playing or grief one of the groups until they do. The design of the instance anything takes hours so there is no waiting your turn, SE also failed to give us any mechanic involving laying claim.

SE may not have wanted players to grief other players, at least they say that. Their game design on the other hand leaves us no choice, it's on them.

No.

Nothing is ever a justification for griefing other players. The fact that you think this is the ONLY recourse available, while simultaeneously having Yoshi himself say that people haven't yet found the best method to get light, is pathetic. Loathe as I am to defend that, it's still a point to be brought up.

If doing the same thing over and over and not trying something else isn't working, but people are too disinterested/apathetic to consider trying anything else, I better not hear them once complain about someone griefing them if they feel justified in doing it themselves.

Are people at wit's end about this? Yes, and it's frustrating. Pagos is frustrating.

While not directed at you specifically Miles, I need to use the word you in the general sense here: If you think anything is a good enough reason to grief other players, you're both wrong, and a terrible player looking for an excuse to continue being a jackhole.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

snip

Eh. It depends how you define griefing. Many people will consider it griefing if your group attempts to forcibly push another group from their camp spot by sniping the dragons as they spawn yet the design of Pagos all but encourages such competitive and aggressive behavior. Your alternative is significantly less progression or none at all, hoping that particular spawn location is available whenever you have free time to play again. The fact this is even a consideration speaks to how poorly executed Pagos is. The sheer linearity destroys any potential corporation. Yoshida can prattle on about how we haven't found the best method yet, but it's all hot air at this point. After all, he could easily be lying by omission in the vein hope people keep going into Pagos to keep it active. It certainly wouldn't be the first time his PR statement don't line up with actual gameplay components. On the other hand, even if we do take him at face value, then we're back to the aforementioned poor design. There shouldn't be a month long guestimation on how their super special awesome system of relativity works.

Complexity for complexity's sake isn't innovation. It's simply bad design.

[WhyAmIHere]

-cut-

I agree wholesale. Either he's lying through his teeth and he and the team will have to scramble to make what he's saying factual stealthily, or he's being honest and hopes players can figure it out.

They havent.

And there's only so many things one can experiment on that yield less than ideal results. Pagos is poorly designed and not entirely well thought out, I agree and have made that same statement myself.

But griefing for the sake of efficiency at the expense of others in a game that totes "anyone can do any content on anything" is wrong. That sentiment implies a welcoming nature to the game. and for the most part is has that... but we're back to Pagos and how it runs counter to that. Unless it turns out there is a more efficient method that works to promote that. I doubt it, seeing as how aggressively against it the game's current end-game content design doesn't support that.

Honestly I hope 4.4 does something major to address this, else more and more people are going to tire of the content and abandon it, or attitudes like this will only get worse and spread throughout the rest of the playerbase slowly.

tl;dr: Yoshi fix yo game (again).