The Road to 5.0

[ObsidianFire]

I-will-destroy-all-light-and-life-and-absorb-all-beings-into-myself-for-I-am-Zodiark-the-embodiment-of-death-and-annihilation-and-all-shall-find-their-way-into-my-nothingness. Why-do-you-look-to-the-light-for-it-is-meaningless-for-even-it-shall-be-swallowed-up-in-my-everlasting-darkness. Succumb-to-the-inevibility-of-being-one-with-me...

If Hydalyen is the Source of life, aether, and renewal, and Zodiark is her opposite and enemy, then I have a hard time seeing him react any other way to the WoL...

[Ramesses]

I-will-destroy-all-light-and-life-and-absorb-all-beings-into-myself-for-I-am-Zodiark-the-embodiment-of-death-and-annihilation-and-all-shall-find-their-way-into-my-nothingness. Why-do-you-look-to-the-light-for-it-is-meaningless-for-even-it-shall-be-swallowed-up-in-my-everlasting-darkness. Succumb-to-the-inevibility-of-being-one-with-me...

Thanks for this... I had been trying to decipher some of the words in the trailer, so this is it?

[KageTokage]

Thanks for this... I had been trying to decipher some of the words in the trailer, so this is it?

That was just a joke.

"That way.. sorrow.. history must be changed. Ahead looms light, expunging all form and life. Twin dooms only you can forestall, a new you. Throw wide the gates, that we may pass. Ahead looms a calamity."

That's the most accurate-sounding transcription I've heard. The mention of a "new you" is probably the most concerning thing to me, since it could tie in with that song mentioning a "hero of rebirth transcending" which implies to me that if we're "reborn", whether figuratively or literally, it's not going to be a good thing in the long run.

I feel like things are about get to get several magnitudes worse before they start getting better again.

[Alleo]

I kinda wonder when Hydaelyn will finally talk to us again. I just cant believe that somehow a flood of light is coming or happening on some shards and she just dont tell us that. I mean she should now be at least powerful enough to talk to us.

@Cilia

I do agree with a lot of your points, but I still do feel like the he does a lot for personal gains. Because if he only had the planet and his country in mind, why would he stop freedom of speech for certain topics, kill or take down political opponents and try everything to rule the world instead of finding a solution with the countries? For me for example someone like Thordan is one that I can call morally black but not evil. Because he did quite some bad things and planned some even worse because he knew that the truth should not get out. In his view he was saving the city because he knew that people would be demotivated to fight if they know that it was their fault that the war started, while the enemy wont stop until they are all death. So he was believing that he was doing the best for his people. So for me he was enjoyable in that way because I kinda could understand his reasoning but in the end it was still bad and he needed to be stopped. But who knows what would have happened with Ishgard if we were not there and Aymeric still told everyone the truth. Maybe it would not even exist anymore. As far as we know, Garlemald does not have such a enemy, so being that harsh towards political opponents honestly just feel like someone wants to keep his throne.

In the end I do believe that there cant be definition about who is objectively evil because its still quite subjective. Like you I do feel that freedom of speech and how to live your life are quite important and anyone that takes this away is at least morally black, the same when someone start to see genocide as a solution to problems. And all of that is what at least right now is happening. He is also allowing experiments to happen otherwise the scientist could not do them so openly. He also treats all those that he sees bellow them as savages or even less. I am quite sure that he does not even view beast tribes as more than just animals either. And look at his reaction towards Zenos death, his own son. (He also never truly stopped the actions of his son in Ala Mhigo and Doma so he was at least neutral or maybe even fine with them)

Maybe we will get to know more about him in the future and maybe then I will see him as a morally black or quite morally dark grey person but right now he just feels like the evil antagonist that is working with the even bigger bad guy. I just cant see us working together with Garlemald and seeing a peaceful future with him alive. In real life people do can change but I am not sure if they would do something like that in fiction.

[Cilia]

Ah, right... the Burn is an aether-drained wasteland, just like the First Shard. This could be relevant.

suppose for a moment we did get a chance to talk to zodiark what would you guess he would say cuz we have only heard one side of the story that from hydaelyn honestly cant even guess.

Presumably, some crap about how he wasn't wrong for wanting to be the dominant force and how Hydaelyn perverted reality by casting him out. The same sort of crap we get from the Ascians, really, plus some explanation about what Elidibus meant when he said (parphrased) "If you knew what I know, we'd be on the same side."

I kinda wonder when Hydaelyn will finally talk to us again. I just cant believe that somehow a flood of light is coming or happening on some shards and she just dont tell us that. I mean she should now be at least powerful enough to talk to us.

@Cilia

Hide-boxed for somewhat off-topic.

Varis' unwillingness to work with others is a product of his immense arrogance. Like I said earlier, that one line from him in the Sea of Clouds...

"'tis my solemn charge as Emperor to bring the eikons to heel."

... tells you everything you need to know about his character.

To put it in a more vernacular way:

"I'm the Emperor now, so it's my duty to protect the world from eikons."

He doesn't trust anyone else to accomplish this task and has no interest in cooperating with others to do so - why would he? He's Emperor, he knows best, and what's best is for everyone to listen to him and do what he says. To use another piece of media for reference, this makes Varis rather like Zamasu from Dragon Ball Super - he doesn't believe in anybody but himself. That's how overwhelmingly massive his ego is. And, much like Zamasu, I don't think he'll have a change of heart either... unless his collaboration with [probably] Elidibus ends with him getting fed a whole humble pie.

Now, we can recount all the terrible things Varis and his country have ordered and/or actually done, but they still have that thin veneer of "for the planet's survival" to fall back on... making them not objectively evil. However, that's all it really is - a thin veneer, or to put it in a more vernacular way, a pathetically obvious excuse. We know, for a fact, Garlemald would still be grinding its war machine against the rest of the world without that excuse. A lot of its cruel ethos has nothing to do with eikons. ("They're cruel to others because they were naturally disadvantaged horrifically persecuted before they developed magitek!" - That's irrelevant.) It tried to commit genocide on the entire subcontinent of Eorzea with Meteor, which would have been orders of magnitudes worse than what Sylvanas did to Teldrassil. (I'm still curious as to why everybody puts the onus for that debacle solely on van Darnus when Solus had the final say. "Not all Garleans agreed with the Meteor Project!" - That's irrelevant.)

... nonetheless, however much I may disagree with its ethos and goals, Garlemald and its Emperor cannot be condemned as pure, straight evil because of that thin veneer - that ostensible proclamation that what it does is for the survival of the planet. I oppose it on an ideological level and condemn damn near everything it does, but that doesn't make it Grade-A "Evil."

[Alleo]

Ah, right... the Burn is an aether-drained wasteland, just like the First Shard. This could be relevant.

Presumably, some crap about how he wasn't wrong for wanting to be the dominant force and how Hydaelyn perverted reality by casting him out. The same sort of crap we get from the Ascians, really, plus some explanation about what Elidibus meant when he said (parphrased) "If you knew what I know, we'd be on the same side."

About the answer in the hidden box: Well it seems that we are the same opinion about it and I do wonder how some people in Garlemald would react if they would find out that their leader works with one of those that made wide spread summoning possible. In the end this is going to be a interesting part and I am curious how SE will solve this.

I also still find it a bit funny how the burn is a wasteland but seemingly has enough aether left to produce or keep those monsters alive that we will fight there. Also will be interesting why they have those strange Allagan looking parts in it. (Since that part of the trailer does not truly fit into other parts of the game) Maybe this is just another "its the allagans fault" part of story. x) (I hope not)

And maybe Zodiark is like Elidibus: I could tell you why I am right and you would surely be on our side but I wont tell it to you because "reaons". I still wonder when Elidibus will finally spill the beans about the so called truth.

[ObsidianFire]

The thing about "thin veneers" when dealing with large people group's motives is that for some people the "thin veneer" isn't a veneer at all.

Pre-Heavensward, I would have said the same thing about Iceheart as I would about Varis. Only in Iceheart's case it turns out she wasn't kidding about her motivations at all.

Now with Varis, I still think his reasoning is a veneer for various reasons, but to say that about everyone in Garlemald? No. I think enough people really do believe that they are doing the right thing the telling Garlemald about what is really happening will cause at least some people to realize that they have been wrong. Which opens up an entire other can of worms about what direction Garlemald is going in and if Garlemald really wants to go there, but in my opinion, I kinda don't think Garlemald has had that discussion ever since they became an empire. So better to have it now then later.

[Cilia]

I guess I need to clarify... again...

When I say that Garlemald... whatever, I'm not talking about individuals. Individuals can dissent and disagree with what their country does; we know that not everybody in Garlemald agrees with the direction it's taken since some number of the theater troupe, the Populares, and Cid all disagree with the Empire's more oppressive policies. To say "Garlemald [X]" is to speak of it as a collective society, i.e. Garlemald decided to place supreme executive power into the hands of one man (the Emperor).

As a collective society, it still thinks what it's doing is acceptable - if it didn't it would change. There may be (likely is) wool over the eyes of the common folk, but even if there isn't they don't have any real power in their government. That's the society Garlemald wanted. That can change, but someone like Varis - someone who believes only he knows what's right and best - isn't going to give up his power willingly.

Does Varis serve his people or his ideals? If his people wanted change would he cede (or even listen) to their wishes? Those are the questions that need to be answered about Varis before any talk of him turning a new leaf can really begin, and as long as he holds supreme executive power Garlemald is along for the ride... unless it wants to start a civil war.

[Vulcwen]

A question worth asking at this point is, how much power does Varis actually have? With Elidibus as Zenos being around, Elidibus holds a really powerful card over Varis there. Can Varis really defend himself if Elidibus would decide to kill him off? If Varis is dead, Zenos (and thus Elidibus) would be the next emperor.

[KageTokage]

I'd like to hope the emperor has some kind of back-up plan in case things with Elidibus don't pan out as well as he hoped, though even if he did, with how prevalent the Ascian influence is in Garlemald it would probably be difficult to keep it hidden.

Him being referred to as a "tactical genius" is going to seem rather silly if he just ends up getting used as a tool, and I'm kind of surprised he was willing to cooperate with an Ascian when he should know full well they're the ones responsible for primal summonings even being a thing in the first place.