Thread: The Road to 5.0

Originally Posted by Theodric

In ages past, the Garleans were expelled from the relative warmth of lands to the south of the realm-dividing central mountain range. After crossing the treacherous peaks, they had no choice but to settle in the bleak northern reaches of the continent.

In light of the Ivalice plotline, this would be a reference to being driven out of Goug? In any case it doesn't directly say that persecution is why they were driven out of their previous lands, even if you can infer it from the rest of the paragraph.

As to why they left Goug....

From the quest "Annihilation":

Mikoto:
According to the Zodiac Brave Story, the Clockwork City of Goug was a metallic metropolis wherein airships, automata, and other technological marvels of the age were first conceived. Little is said about its location, however, save that it was far away.

Jenomis:
While the Durai Papers do not say a great deal more, they do mention that the land upon which the legendary city was built was severely limited─an inconvenience that forced its inhabitants to build up, rather than out.
Which led me to ask myself: what if the reason land was limited was because the land in question was an island?
But that still would not explain the omission of the cataract. It is inconceivable that the authors would neglect to mention so prominent a landmark had it existed. And then I found it─a lone passage regarding Goug's fall. While the particulars were missing, it appears the city was abandoned after an explosion left half of it in ruin.
I believe that this explosion may have undermined a portion of the seabed. It need only have been a small area at first─one that could well have gone unnoticed during the exodus. As time passed, however, the waters would have continued to wear away at the rock, slowly widening the gap until...
Well, until we have what lies beneath us today. This would explain why there is no mention of Ridorana prior to the present era.

So... a grand mechanical city, abandoned not because of persecution but some kind of disaster - possibly of their own making - that half-destroyed it. And if that wasn't enough to make them leave, the growing chasm would be threatening to consume the rest of it.

The situation with Goug is a different matter entirely. That happened much earlier on in the timeline. The lore book is specifically referring to their time spent in Ilsabard and how they were forced out of the fertile portion and into the treacherous wasteland to the north. So if it does turn out that Goug is the origin point for Pureblood Garleans then they lost not one but two homes. One to whatever disaster rendered Goug unfit to inhabit and the second to persecution in Ilsabard. As it stands, we need to await the conclusion of the Return to Ivalice story arc to get the full details.

The lore book does not cover anything post Heavensward. The upcoming second lorebook, however, will.

Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

-snip-

Their default home is a wasteland that cannot easily support them, thus expansion was a necessity to improve their quality of life and prevent them from dying out. Had they not expanded, they would have been at the mercy of the harsh climate and deposits of ceruleum. A particularly poor harvest or sudden attack could have easily wiped them out or at least put a considerable dent in their already small numbers. A better comparison than Nidhogg would be how the Hyur migrated to Eorzea and went to war with the Elezen, shifting the demographics of Eorzea and kicking off events such as the founding of Ishgard as a consequence. The Ishgardians, at least, had the luxury of fertile land...at least until the events surrounding Dalamud brought ice and snow to the entire region.

Unpleasant circumstances like Goug being rendered uninhabitable?

The lorebook is always going to be intentionally vague about things that haven't been explained in the game yet, and might even be wrong. (See: my gripes with its take on the astrologian quests.) When the game is going to go into more detail about Garlean history at some point, hopefully soon, I'm not going to trust that the lorebook gives an accurate description of what happened.

See the entry for Yda, for example. It gives some extra information, yet dances around the major fact we'll learn about her by the beginning of Stormblood.

Originally Posted by Theodric

Their default home is a wasteland that cannot easily support them, thus expansion was a necessity to improve their quality of life and prevent them from dying out.

Which still doesn't justify how aggresively they have conquered other nations and treated their inhabitants.

The events of Goug happened long before the Garleans arrived in Ilsabard. They had been living in Ilsabard for some time before being driven out. It is also not entirely confirmed whether or not the Garleans hail from there - Ramza is speculating and whilst it does fit his own theory implies it may be the origin point for but a single 'tribe' of Garlean.

I also found this scrap of information under the geography section of the lorebook:

Ilsabard:

'Positioned between Aldernard and Othard, the continent of Ilsabard is characterised by extreme temperatures and unpredictable weather. The northern territories located beyond Ilsbard's dividing central mountain range are oft regarded as some of the harshest environments on Hydaelyn, with several coastal communities made to endure unforgiving storms in the summer and frozen seas in the winter. This has ultimately impeded the advancement of civilisation, forcing people to instead exhaust their resources to simply survive.'

So the situation is not at all exaggerated.

Originally Posted by Iscah

Which still doesn't justify how aggresively they have conquered other nations and treated their inhabitants.

It does, to an extent. Many nations across Hydaelyn have their own sins to bear. In Garlemald's case, they became hardened to the world as a direct consequence of what they had endured. Garlemald's initial expansion was to secure resources and improve their quality of life. Could they learn to treat non-Garleans better? Certainly - though it's a two way street. These sort of conflicts are far more nuanced than many like to admit. Garlemald is still a fairly young entity. Ishgard engaged in a war built on false context for a thousand years. That's far longer than any war Garlemald has engaged in.

I've also repeatedly stated that Garlemald does need reform, but it is a two way street. Other nations need to come to understand the Garlean's point of view. Their concerns. The fact that Garlemald itself isn't a pleasant place to live or somewhere they wished to establish themselves by choice.

4.4 is almost certainly going to shed further light on Garlemald's history. It's a safe bet given that the original Emperor is depicted in the patch artwork. Though hopefully it doesn't just focus on The Burn and instead goes further back as well.

As an additional note, Ala Mhigo and Doma both launched rebellions after being conquered. That is, in large part, the reason for much of the cruelty to exist in those regions. Other nations under Garlean rule have been described as 'prosperous' with life going on as normal by Baut, a Garlean Centurion who is involved in a lengthy quest chain within The Peaks. In Doma's case, much of the cruelty its people suffered was also at the whims of Yotsuyu - a woman who had come to loathe her country of birth due to the physical, emotional and sexual abuse that she was forced to endure...combined with her neighbours turning a blind eye and pretending as if they did not see or hear anything. Once again, it's a case of nuances - and it is very likely that each territory within Garlemald can be judged on separate terms.