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Thread: The Road to 5.0

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  1. #1
    Player
    Cilia's Avatar
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    The Hermit's Hovel
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    Trpimir Ratyasch
    World
    Lamia
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    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    "This tragedy, greater even than the Seventh Umbral Calamity, must be undone. If history is to be unwritten, let it be unwritten. Become who you must. Become the Warrior of Darkness."

    So from the sounds of it, we're either going to have to rewrite history, or fix some huge mess without getting credit for it.

    Exactly which I could not yet say.
    (0)
    Trpimir Ratyasch's Way Status (7.3 - End)
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    "There is no hope in stubbornly clinging to the past. It is our duty to face the future and march onward, not retreat inward." -Sovetsky Soyuz, Azur Lane: Snowrealm Peregrination

  2. #2
    Player
    RukiaFae's Avatar
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    Rukia Fae
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    Goblin
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    Goldsmith Lv 78
    To unwrite the past or fix a mistake can still be done in a present context. For example if an event like removing a potiential threat was suppose to happen during a certain time frame and didn't it happen we can still possibly fix this mistake and unwrite history by completing the event now.

    For example, not related to the story, if a specific person is supposed to die before certain date in two months and an assassin misses their target on the intended day it could change the course of history creating a new time line. However they can still unwrite "that future" if they get a message from the future before the two month time frame is up and completes their mission. That is a way to unwrite the future without going back in time. I hope that makes sense
    (4)

  3. #3
    Player
    CaesarCV's Avatar
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    Faire Eravyn
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    Jenova
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    Scholar Lv 80
    I think that something else needs to be considered. The message doesn't have to be literally from the future even if it refers to 'avoiding the future,' 'averting fate', or anything like that. Similarly 'undoing a mistake' doesn't have to be literally going back in time and undoing a mistake. Nor does it have to be even a literal prophecy. We have recently dealt with Arbert, a fellow Warrior of Light who fought too hard against darkness and doomed his shard to a flood of light. Given that a flood of light appears to be the threat of the expansion, it makes just as much sense that he's trying to avert the player from making his same mistakes, and to try and save both of their worlds from said flood. This would mean our characters don't have to literally go to the past, they merely have to move forward and figure out how to save the world(s).
    (1)

  4. #4
    Player
    Anonymoose's Avatar
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    Anony Moose
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    Excalibur
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    Arcanist Lv 100
    Again, just stirring the pot:

    Quote Originally Posted by 4.4 Mystery Voice (German)
    Der Lauf der Geschichte muss geändert ...
    The course of history must be changed...

    [snip]

    Lass mich die Grenzen von Zeit und Raum sprengen!
    Let me destroy the confines of time and space!
    (2)
    "I shall refrain from making any further wild claims until such time as I have evidence."
    – Y'shtola

  5. #5
    Player
    LycorisSelunis's Avatar
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    Lycoris Selunis
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    Behemoth
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    Sorry I'm late to the party, but as an aside from translations I think something else previewed is a good chip in the 'time travel' pile in my opinion- New Game Plus.

    It has been mentioned a time or two how much mess it is to redo zones and the like for different parts in the story and not being able to go back to old places, or for certain lore bits being lost and whatnot. A perfect outside example of this was WoW's Cataclysm expansion- they completely redid most low level zones in Azeroth and it removed a lot of lore-nugget quests from the game entirely. I feel like NG+ might be a way to reconcile changing stuff around us but allowing us a window to still access the old things (though I assume it won't include side quests still, hrm....). Either that or they realize there is going to be so much going on now in the long narrative that it's going to be necessary to have a refresher course in the story.

    I don't feel like I have adequately explained why I feel this way about the NG+ aspect in comparison to time travel new zones or the like..... it's on the tip of my tongue but I can't quite get it into proper words.
    (0)

  6. #6
    Player
    Iscah's Avatar
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    Aurelie Moonsong
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    Bismarck
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    Summoner Lv 90
    New Game Plus isn't going to be an easy way to revisit old zones because you've gone beyond a "point of no return" in the story. It's going to force you to do the entire MSQ again - and then you will eventually reach that point of no return again and once again be cut off. It's a mechanism that might be fine for a single-player game, but not for this game with its social aspects and "do at any time" side content. Players cannot be permanently cut off from these elements of the game, and "you can go back as long as you replay the entire MSQ" isn't going to be an acceptable solution.

    So I greatly expect that any dramatic world-altering events, or time travel, or anything like that, have to be created with the starting concept that the world as it is now will remain permanently available to players. Perhaps the story might temporarily block areas off, but they will be either short term or non-critical areas that you won't need to enter for other reasons. If we travel through time to the future or the past, if it is a solid world and not a temporary event, then there will be some kind of stable portal that allows us to travel back and forth.
    (7)

  7. #7
    Player Theodric's Avatar
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    Matthieu Desrosiers
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    Cerberus
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    Reaper Lv 90
    Any major events that change the game world will likely be largely confined to the new zones. When Ilberd summoned Shinryu pretty much all of the damage occurred on the opposite side of Baelsar's Wall.
    (4)

  8. #8
    Player
    KageTokage's Avatar
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    Alijana Tumet
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    Cactuar
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    Ninja Lv 100
    The question that's been bugging me the most at this point is whether history is going to be literally or figuratively unwritten.

    It can be assumed we'll likely get to see and explore a light-scoured version of Hydaelyn at this point, but whether it's via time travel, alternate realities, etc, would have a pretty huge influence on exactly how things play out both for the present and the future. I'm not feeling too sure about my idea of the first shard effectively being the "future" due to extreme similarities in how events there played out compared to the Source after seeing those alternate translations of the mystery voice's warning, though.

    The fact that they still need to keep the entire game world accessible to us at all times makes me feel like things actually going bad at the Source isn't very likely unless they come up with a silly handwave like it just being our imagination or some such (That hasn't stopped us from getting tangible loot from fictional scenarios via savage/ultimate raids, after all).
    (0)
    Last edited by KageTokage; 12-19-2018 at 10:38 PM.

  9. #9
    Player
    Chewy2nd's Avatar
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    Ul'dah
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    Dia Lancea
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    Adamantoise
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    Archer Lv 100
    Hmm, if the rumours are to be believed about SHB's jobs, they could kinda hint at the upcoming locations

    Dancer - Thavnair/Radz-At-Han
    Gunblade - Garlemald
    (0)

  10. #10
    Player
    Anonymoose's Avatar
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    Anony Moose
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    Excalibur
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    Arcanist Lv 100
    I forget how the debate even started, but we were laying out all of Varis's actions and positions to discuss his brilliance in short-term situations, complete lack of far-sighted strategy, and seemingly waffling opinions between 4.0 and 4.5.

    Between 4.0 and 4.3 is probably the best window to ask, "What would Regula counsel Varis to say to Elidibus right now?" before remembering that Elidibus specifically tasked Unukalhai with getting Regula killed one patch before he showed up in 4.0 to start dropping Alleged-Truth Bombs on him. However, in 4.3 and 4.4, we see that Varis is second-guessing giving Elidibus a blank check just because he promises to continue to support the Empire's supremacy, and that he loathes the idea of mankind not controlling its own destiny. By 4.5 it seems as though he's chugged the Kool-Aid, but one thing he says stands out.

    Solus tells Varis in 4.4 that they should all be on board with the Rejoining and that Elidibus liberates him from the burden of free will, he just has to follow orders. Solus's job was to set up Rejoinings, and if Elidibus says keep the balance, keep the balance. (Varis's lack of foresight is again highlighted in their next chat, when he only just then realizes that [a] Solus planned the War of Succession and his ascension to the throne, and [b] Solus never cared whether the Empire survived the Calamity.)

    However, in 4.5, Varis swaps that around. He says that he's on board with the Rejoining and that Elidibus has imprisoned him with the burden of free will. Because the Ascians have no plan for the Empire, he must usurp their plan. This brings his waffling in line and everything is now consistent. Now, by this point Solus has already gotten distracted thinking about Black Rose and run off to The First to try something (FORESHADOWING), leaving Varis to reveal the details of his plan to usurp the Ascian plan. I think this is where our focus should be.

    It all hinges on the idea that "Man" predates the sundering of the star, and that in this age man was a single, perfect race. By completing the Rejonings, the world will become "as it once was" and mankind will be restored. At this point, man can turn on the servants of Light and Darkness Thordan-style and take the reins of history by force. We're meant to assume that this is what Elidibus has planned all along.

    So there's one layer of questioning: Is this the "way it once was" Elidibus wanted back? Is Zodiark's revival incidental? What happens to man, then?

    Here's another layer of questioning: Is that premise even true? We've always been told that Hydaelyn created Life to respond to Zodiark's treachery. This was in the Gerun Oracles, which Elidibus held up as truth. Is this the big hint that Varis has been duped? Or is the truer truth that life as we know it, the mortal races, are Hydaelyn's children, but that we pre-date this? That we were created when Hydaelyn and Zodiark were one, that THIS is why we are both Light and Dark, that THIS - our being ALIVE - is what pulled them apart?

    (Now there's more than one way to interpret "Were Light and Dark given form when man was born?")

    Or is this all a classic Elidibus misdirection and that's not at all what mankind being "perfect and whole" even means?

    No matter how you slice it, though, Solus has pointed out several times now that Varis is terrible at hiding his emotions. Elidibus knows he's rattled. And just before Solus left for the First he all but said goodbye. Varis is perhaps about to make his exit. But did on his way out, did he merely reveal the means of his deception, or point us in the "right" direction?

    Right or not, I'm backing Hydaelyn's play on this one. I'm just fine with the world as we knew it and fought for it all along. Finding another way to smite everything that would see it any other way is preeetty much what this franchise is about.
    (12)
    Last edited by Anonymoose; 02-05-2019 at 09:41 PM.
    "I shall refrain from making any further wild claims until such time as I have evidence."
    – Y'shtola

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