The Road to 5.0

**LineageRazor** · 12-14-2018 04:41 AM

Well, there goes my theory about the Ghimlyt Dark being a "bad future" that the WoL experiences to encourage them to change the world's fate! Instead, it's a location in Garlean-controlled territory where we'll be making a stand, or pressing an invasion, or something. Probably not the latter; the Alliance, at least currently, doesn't seem to be interested in marching on Garlemand, but they likely WOULD respond in force if it became known that Garlemand was marching on them! Certainly it does appear that Solus's and Eridibus's desire to get the ol' Garlean war machine's motor running is going to be a thing that happens - though I'm curious as to whether it will be with Varis's support, or if they'll need to work around him.

As for the whole Tonight Someone Dies thing, I don't agree that picking out a prominent character (or characters) to kill off would necessarily improve the storyline. I guess it depends on how they do it.

Neither would it be outrageous if we DIDN'T lose any primaries. While casualties in war are to be expected, it's not unrealistic to believe that the Scions, for example, could make it through unscathed by being, essentially paragons. All of them are highly talented individuals, and likely have a lot more survivability than the average foot soldier. (Well, assuming they're not killed in their coma-induced slumber; but THAT, I think, would be pretty mean-spirited, more along the lines of something George R. R. Martin would write, rather than our group of FFXIV writers.) The same goes for most of the prominent non-Scion characters we know.

**Xie_Belvoule** · 12-14-2018 04:51 AM

I have a strong suspicion that the GC leaders are gonna get stomped in a fight, with some being badly wounded or outright killed. Here's hoping that the Garleans kill some main characters. Especially the scions who have outstayed their welcome in the story.

**Theodric** · 12-14-2018 05:41 AM

At the end of the day FFXIV is a Final Fantasy game. Many of the single player games have explored major character deaths as part of their story lines and in some cases the fact that such major deaths happened in the first place is largely what put them on the map.

Would FF5 be nearly so memorable if ExDeath didn't kill off a major character? Arguably not.
Would FF6 be nearly so memorable if Kefka hadn't razed Doma and succeeded in many of his goals? Arguably not.
Would FF7 be nearly so memorable if Sephiroth didn't kill a major character? Arguably not.
Would FF9 be nearly so memorable if Burmecia, Cleyra and Lindblum hadn't been attacked by Queen Brahne? Arguably not.
Would Final Fantasy Tactics be nearly so memorable if all the war and political intrigue led to little more than a few minor characters being killed off? Arguably not.

The occasional major character dying in FFXIV is also by no means anywhere near the same level as George RR Martin's bleak writing. In his case, it isn't unusual for multiple major characters to be killed off in a single book/series. In FFXIV's the protagonists usually emerge triumphant most of the time - and when they do not, there's a good chance that their 'death' turns out to not actually be a death after all.

The writers cannot please everybody but if their intention is to tell a story about war then consistently disallowing for any major or shocking deaths to occur will simply cause stagnation. They shouldn't kill off characters for the sake of killing them off but at the same time only ever allowing the antagonists to be the ones to suffer meaningful, lasting losses is going to become very boring.

**TheHeavenAbyss** · 12-14-2018 06:06 AM

Is more characters not dying such a big deal though? Moenbryda, Haurchefant, Ysaile and Papalymo died. Also, Meffrid and Conrad, but those didn't matter that much, I admit. And then, against that, you have Nanamo and Gosetsu (although he became unable to battle) actually surviving. If you count the villains, you also have Yotsuyu, Zenos and most likely Gaius, but you also have a larger number of deaths, with Nabriales, Regula, Igeyorhm, Thordan, Ilberd and Lahabrea (is he actually dead?).

So yeah, I don't particularly think the game is going too easy on the characters or something. Villains have suffered more losses, but there were also more "not actually dead" cases for them too. Not that I mind if someone gets killed, I just want it to be meaningful and to serve the story. The same way, if a character comes back to have a good and meaningful role (can't coment on Gaius and Zenos yet, but with Yotsuyu and Gosetsu their return actually led to one of my favorite arcs in the game), I'm good. Now, to me, Nanamo could have stayed dead. Not that I dislike her, but she isn't that important, and she is probably the case that looked more like a cop out to a lot of people.

**Xie_Belvoule** · 12-14-2018 06:16 AM

I agree Theodric, they shouldn't go full Martin and kill everyone, that kind of writing leads to darkness induced audience apathy. However SB was laughable because no one important was killed in not one but two revolutionary wars to over throw the most powerful empire on the planet. I was rolling my eyes when we literally just walked into that one town. When Gosetsu was reveled to have survived doma castle I groined and turned off my ps4. What a cop out, him and Yotsoyu was so incredibly predictable. I saw the Tsukoyomi stuff coming from a mile away but then again I've read a lot Japanese mythology so....

I just struggle to take the story seriously when their are no stakes. Hopefully the Garleans clobber the alliance so I can actually take them seriously as a threat.

My list of characters that should die or be incapacitated
-Lyse: dead
-Merylweb: dead
- kan-e-senna: incap
-Aymeric: incap
-alisaie: dead
-Shtola: dead
-Hien: incap
-yugiri: dead
-Eldibus: dead
-Doman enclave: everyone dead from black rose
-Varis: incap
-Zenos: my only friend comes back

If any or all of those occur I'll be happy.

P.S. Everyone should post their own list of characters who should go on the chopping block. Did I miss anyone who needs to go?

**Anonymoose** · 12-14-2018 06:35 AM

I'm still trying to figure out where I stand (after that trailer put a wrecking ball through my 5.0 house of cards), lol. I did gain a little confidence back knowing I haven't lost my deductive touch; Grimlyt is merely opposite Rothlyt and this is Zenos!Elidibus's push on Ala Mhigo, which Varis neglected to consent to a hot minute ago. So Doma, if not Hien's alliance, answers the call. The anti-Imperial forces meet a sincere push by Elidibus. And then what?

Before seeing the 5.0 trailer I would have said I was pretty confident that Elidibus had set up the "balance" to trigger a Calamity - deleting a world and killing millions without rocking the boat hard enough to risk oblivion for the Source... and that Thancred's plan and the Warrior of Light are going to - against all odds - land a suckerpunch across Elidibus's face at the exact wrong moment.

And then The Voice... Once again, my weird voice-recognition habit screamed Joe Dempsie (Arbert) when I saw the trailer, but my JP friends assure me it's Alphinaud's voice actor in JP. Then I realize Colin Ryan didn't grow up too far from Joe Dempsie and I doubt myself... Could he fool me with a deeper pitch? But why would the voice be Arbert and claim the laws of time and space will bend before him? Expanse contracting, Eon becoming Instant ... that's Zodiark sh[kupo!]t.

And how do I align those possibilities with the three regional artworks we've been shown and the young girl... Ilsabard after a tragedy? The First, somehow? Hydaelyn incarnate? Minfilia reborn? Is our long-hypothesized "Larsa" actually "Princess Sarah"? sighs

I still need to think.

Someone's gonna die, though. Not because it's "necessary for a good story", but because change requires change. Transitions require gains and losses. Moreover, with Gosetsu, Gaius, and Zenos all coming back, the Red God needs three names if people aren't going to start looking at death in FFXIV like death in The X-Files. It has to matter. For every Nanamo, there must needs be a Haurchefant.

**ChaoticCrimson** · 12-14-2018 06:48 AM

Now I'm also starting to wonder what part Fordola could play in events in the coming patch. After all, she's been a fairly prominent character throughout Stormblood. Will the Resonance bring her down the path of atonement? If she were discover Gaius were still alive, could she find purpose at his side once more? Will she live, or will she die? We shall soon see...

**Xie_Belvoule** · 12-14-2018 06:50 AM

I'll help you out anonymoose. The voice is zodiark possessing someone and talking through them and the girl is a young minfillia. Zodiark isn't the villian he's portrayed to be by hydaelyn . The black robed ascians are mistaken in their interpretation of Zodiark. Eldibus is the only ascian who understands that zodiark is not evil nor is hydaelyn good. That a balance is required.

As far as the plot, it's clear that Light is going to oppose us. I've read enough Micheal Moorcock to know where this plot is going. We're going to get stuck playing Elric of Melnibone this expansion.

P.S. You wanna understand shadowbringers plot? Go read Moorcock's Elric saga and Eternal Champion books.

**Anonymoose** · 12-14-2018 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by Xie_Belvoule

I'll help you out anonymoose.

Th-thanks?

Originally Posted by Xie_Belvoule

The voice is zodiark possessing someone and talking through them and the girl is a young minfillia. Zodiark isn't the villian he's portrayed to be by hydaelyn . The black robed ascians are mistaken in their interpretation of Zodiark. Eldibus is the only ascian who understands that zodiark is not evil nor is hydaelyn good. That a balance is required.

I think all of those are on my shifting list of potentials, barring obviously sudden injections like Solus which upend the entire concept of trusting precedent. Though I'm hesitant to commit to predictions; it could just as easily go the other way. For example, adjust one of the factors in play systemically and suddenly it makes more sense that Zodiark's return is nigh and the little girl is Hydaelyn incarnate, fleeing the Sea because His will can overpower Hers. (Granted, travel to the First would make it more likely that she's Ascilia.) Not to mention that Zodiark can be necessary, not necessarily evil, and not a big fan of mortal life. The scorpion always stings the frog. And I'm 100% down for the idea that the black-robed Ascians misunderstand Zodiark, but if they do, I'd bet the fault lies with his arbitrator. Of all the things I doubt in my gut, the one thing I'm often tempted to doubt but never really do remains the same: I can't not think that Elidibus is a snake.

**Xie_Belvoule** · 12-14-2018 07:27 AM

I don't see why zodiark would oppose mortal life when he was literally created the same moment man was created, if Ramuh is to be believed. My guess is that Zodiark is essintally the god of man because man was born with darkness in his heart, again going by what ramuh says.

This is the critical part:

"All blame doth lie within the darkness that resideth in the breast of man. Whence sprung this calamitous seed? In the beginning, no such duality existed. Were light and dark given form when man was born?"

Again, I've read enough Moorcock to know where this is going.

Also, I see Darkness as not anti-life but chaotic in nature. The 13th isn't lifeless, it's full of void sent. It seems to me that Light is antithetical to life as a world overrun by light is implied to be barren and lifeless.

Thread: The Road to 5.0

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