Blood Weapon HP Drain

[SummerScorcher]

Hey guys, I put this suggestion in a couple of other threads a while back but thought I'd make it it's own thread for visibility.


A popular suggestion for DRK is to keep the HP drain of Souleater even when out of Grit. I agree this would be very nice, but what if we would have this ability implemented onto Blood Weapon instead?

It would be 20% of damage dealt as HP, like Bloodbath. I think this would be a fun addition because it'd give you a reason to try and keep your blood and Dark Arts your Bloodspillers under the BW window for the extra HP. It'd make for a nice buffer with Quietus between Abyssal Drains in big pulls, and generally would make our "burst" cooldown feel a bit more powerful.


I know DRK is fine currently but having something like this would be icing on the cake what do you guys think?

[TabrisOmbrelame]

If we can regenerate without Grit, then what Grit is made for ? I mean, it was designed like this, and it will be way to easy to stay alive with something like this... and now we have Sole Survivor that heal us for 20/30% in 15 sec, this could save your life.

I disagree, this can break the balance in game, and the Dark Knight will rename in Vampire Knight at this rate.

I don't need more regenerative ability usable when i'm not in Grit.

[shao32]

snip

we are good in the mitigation field and the HP drain is not complety necesary, but it will really help bcs fit the theme of the job and we dont have any fluff mitigation out of grit so a small HP drain will not break the balance at all, DRK is still the weak tank and any combination that include DRK is still pretty inferior to WAR/PLD so will take much more that a HP drain to make it broke the "balance".

[Lyth]

There is no reason whatsoever why anything should be locked behind Grit. A tank's ability to minimise defensive stance usage is the single biggest determinant of their damage output. Even to this day, DRK has the most expensive defensive stance cost. Abilities that are locked behind Grit might as well not exist. Lifesteal is our shield block. PLD's don't lose block when they swap into Sword Oath. WAR doesn't lose lifesteal from Path when they swap into Deliverance, and the fact that they can absorb their enemies' life force in the first place is baffling.

DRK's identity needs to be better developed. If you handed out the ability to equip shields and block to the other two tanks, you'd dilute PLD's identity, which is why it doesn't happen. Similarly, absorbing foes' lifeforce should be a uniquely DRK flair, with more gameplay elements that build off of it.

Balance depends on numbers. If you don't cite numerical values, you can't discuss balance. A 1% lifesteal is not the same as a 50% lifesteal. As a player, you're generally less equipped to comment on what the exact values should be, because you don't have access to the same set of tools. You can, however, tell the devs that you want to drink your foes' blood, from an aesthetic standpoint. Leave it to them to calculate out what the numbers should be set at.

As far as Blood Weapon itself goes, the main problem is that it has a fairly high uptime. This is partially offset by the fact that DRK uses a hybrid of physical and magical damage, and BW only procs on physical damage. Either way, I'd like to see DRK have more consistent lifesteal in small quantities, similar to how PLD gets their additional block procs in to smooth out the incoming damage.

[SummerScorcher]

If we can regenerate without Grit, then what Grit is made for ? I mean, it was designed like this, and it will be way to easy to stay alive with something like this... and now we have Sole Survivor that heal us for 20/30% in 15 sec, this could save your life.

I disagree, this can break the balance in game, and the Dark Knight will rename in Vampire Knight at this rate.

I don't need more regenerative ability usable when i'm not in Grit.

Shao and Lyth covered pretty much what I wanted to say, and like Lyth said in their post the drain % is completely up for change. Also Sole Survivor isn't really an argument, yes it is awesome but War and PLD still have Thrill/Equilibrium/Path or Clemency which do alot more.

[Launched]

Nah, if anyone gets Bloodbath back it should be WAR.

[Lyth]

I'm glad they took it off of WAR. They need to get rid of the lifesteal from Path, IB, and Steel Cyclone as well. It's bizarre enough that they have the only guaranteed parry move in the game. Stick to things that fit with the job's aesthetic.

[Hierro]

I'm glad they took it off of WAR. They need to get rid of the lifesteal from Path, IB, and Steel Cyclone as well. It's bizarre enough that they have the only guaranteed parry move in the game. Stick to things that fit with the job's aesthetic.

I'll agree 100% that getting rid of bloodbath was the correct choice. Back when Berserk was 20 seconds, and bloodbath around that duration as well, the synergy was insane. It was the ability to output as much damage possible AND keeping yourself alive.

I'll also agree that the lifesteal on path should be removed, because it really does nothing.

HOWEVER, the lifesteal on IB and Steel Cyclone must stay! WAR was given the unique identity of being a life steal tank, and before that was overpowered because it made our offensive stance have no downside. Now, though, that's a different story-- If WAR wants to use their life steal, it comes at the cost of optimal DPS because it means having to be in tank stance and use IB/SC, and miss out on the damage of FC or Decimate, which is NOTHING to scoff at.

Also, our parry move doesn't work on the majority of tank busters.

[Lyth]

The reason why WAR has lifesteal at all is because this game was only released with two tanks. DPS jobs have a lot less identity issues because there was five at launch. Imagine if BLM was the only caster at launch, and you gave them the ability to use summon magic. When SMN comes along, how do you make it feel unique? Imagine if you put Trick Attack, Mug, and Mudras on MNK before NIN was released? How could you be expected to differentiate it after the fact? The reason why Tanks and Healers run into so many problems is because the two-job design of these roles actively stifles new job development. We have to make room for new jobs to build their own niches.

It's not an issue of job power. It's an issue of aesthetics. Take Thrill of Battle, for example. You gain temporary HP to shrug off damage. It's a form of self-healing, but it fits with WAR's overall aesthetic. Casting curative magic and draining life are features that make sense on magically oriented tanks. Parry moves make sense on tanks that use a weapon with finesse. If you're playing a Berserker type job, it makes more sense to just fight through the pain. IB and Steel Cyclone could very easily have been built on similar principles without compromising other tanks' identity. Let IB and Steel Cyclone give temporary HP based on the damage you deal. Leave the vampiric tricks to tanks who have the magic and the lore to support it.

[Hierro]

Leave the vampiric tricks to tanks who have the magic and the lore to support it.

I don't think there's lore that say DRK is a vampire. If anything, DRK has a lot of association with giving up HP. But in either case, DRK has life steal where it is relevant: in large pulls, and for an indefinite amout of time given that resources are properly managed. WAR only has access to such a feature, realistically speaking, once every 90 seconds, and for only 10 seconds at a time.