Treading Dangerous Ground

[Biggs]

I think it's the exact opposite. Polls are about what people want, which is subjective (emotion). The underlying reasons (facts) as to why the people want what they want remains completely hidden in these polls.

I should have clarrified. Polling takes the lengthy responses that ussually contain emotions out of the equation while getting at the root of WHAT players want. I am not arguing that what people want is subjective, it is. My point, and the point of the OP, is that I dont want just the official forum community being the basis for large scale desicions that effect everyone. If you want 5% percent (again, made up number) determining what the rest of us will get, then by all means, thats what you want. To each his own man, I just don't think thats for me. This incident with the merger and his reaction to it though is what I used as an example to highlight my concern for what could happen in the future.

If a dev was to get on here and ask if people would like a Dragon mount (for example), and everyone was then to post a response explaining why they would or would not like one, you would probably get a very vast ranging list of responses on both sides. Take the same question and put it in a poll that just says WOUlD YOU LIKE A DRAGON MOUNT? CHECK YES OR CHECK NO. The results would be the same without them having to read 600 different reasons for WHY we want or dont want one. Its faster, more efficient, and typically more people respond to a poll instead of post a response, so they get a much better idea of what the community wants as whole.

[darkstarpoet1]

I should have clarrified. Polling takes the lengthy responses that ussually contain emotions out of the equation while getting at the root of WHAT players want. I am not arguing that what people want is subjective, it is. My point, and the point of the OP, is that I dont want just the official forum community being the basis for large scale desicions that effect everyone. If you want 5% percent (again, made up number) determining what the rest of us will get, then by all means, thats what you want. To each his own man, I just don't think thats for me. This incident with the merger and his reaction to it though is what I used as an example to highlight my concern for what could happen in the future.

If a dev was to get on here and ask if people would like a Dragon mount (for example), and everyone was then to post a response explaining why they would or would not like one, you would probably get a very vast ranging list of responses on both sides. Take the same question and put it in a poll that just says WOUlD YOU LIKE A DRAGON MOUNT? CHECK YES OR CHECK NO. The results would be the same without them having to read 600 different reasons for WHY we want or dont want one. Its faster, more efficient, and typically more people respond to a poll instead of post a response, so they get a much better idea of what the community wants as whole.

here's another part about polls that are an issue. if you took a poll asking which version of a merge was wanted or even if a merge was wanted then chances are very good that the large servers would have just voted against a merge. looking at these forums leading up til they said they were considering merging servers it was likely 3-1 people opposed to having a merge in the first place.

people on large servers didn't WANT a merge.
people on small servers did NEED a merge.

an overall players poll may have decided the majority didn't want a merge even though some actually do need them to happen. a poll is only as good as the questions are worded. the original poll asked very vague questions and many people, including myself, voted for one thing and have regretted them since.

[Biggs]

here's another part about polls that are an issue. if you took a poll asking which version of a merge was wanted or even if a merge was wanted then chances are very good that the large servers would have just voted against a merge. looking at these forums leading up til they said they were considering merging servers it was likely 3-1 people opposed to having a merge in the first place.

people on large servers didn't WANT a merge.
people on small servers did NEED a merge.

an overall players poll may have decided the majority didn't want a merge even though some actually do need them to happen. a poll is only as good as the questions are worded. the original poll asked very vague questions and many people, including myself, voted for one thing and have regretted them since.

I wanted to respond to this post sooner DarkStar, but ended up going out with my family. I think exactly what you have stated here is an excellent example of the pros and cons of both the forums and the polls. I think that having both is necessary, because, as I have said before, the forums provide a place that players can post questions and concerns, but it shouldnt be used to make desicions concerning everyone in the game. So, as an example of what you have stated here, people from lower population servers use the forums to express their displeasure at having no one to play with (which is actually what happened). SE then see's that a portion of the community isnt enjoying the game, and then decides to merge some of the servers or offer a world transfer. Now, the players on the larger servers dont really feel the need for this, but they can see that there ARE players that do. SE then creates a poll that doesnt ask if there should be one (since they have already made that part of the desicion to do it), but instead creates a poll asking how BOTH communities (the underpopulated and those that are populated just fine) would like to go about fixing the issue for those that need it. Its about finding a balance and creating harmony for everyone. I certainly agree with you though that polls are only good if the right questions are asked in them, and I can see how the forums could be used by the devs to formulate those questions. PLus 1 on your post btw. You bring up some really good points. I dont want people to think (and some do) that I think polls are the end all be all of player communication, because they arent. There is a time and place for them, just like there is a time and place for using the forums.

[darkstarpoet1]

I wanted to respond to this post sooner DarkStar, but ended up going out with my family. I think exactly what you have stated here is an excellent example of the pros and cons of both the forums and the polls. I think that having both is necessary, because, as I have said before, the forums provide a place that players can post questions and concerns, but it shouldnt be used to make desicions concerning everyone in the game. So, as an example of what you have stated here, people from lower population servers use the forums to express their displeasure at having no one to play with (which is actually what happened). SE then see's that a portion of the community isnt enjoying the game, and then decides to merge some of the servers or offer a world transfer. Now, the players on the larger servers dont really feel the need for this, but they can see that there ARE players that do. SE then creates a poll that doesnt ask if there should be one (since they have already made that part of the desicion to do it), but instead creates a poll asking how BOTH communities (the underpopulated and those that are populated just fine) would like to go about fixing the issue for those that need it. Its about finding a balance and creating harmony for everyone. I certainly agree with you though that polls are only good if the right questions are asked in them, and I can see how the forums could be used by the devs to formulate those questions. PLus 1 on your post btw. You bring up some really good points. I dont want people to think (and some do) that I think polls are the end all be all of player communication, because they arent. There is a time and place for them, just like there is a time and place for using the forums.

oh don't take my post the wrong way. i feel polls from the login screen should be a larger part of the game. i just wanted to point out a major issue with polls and how questions are worded.

if a poll is done the questions and responses need to be much more detailed than a basic "do you want drastic changes?", for example. one person may vote, yes, for one thing such as the stamina bar and others may hate the entire system from top to bottom so they vote the same way. if the developers want to use the polls to get peoples opinions on matters they should make the options detailed on what they actually have considered doing.

just remember the numbers we keep going by on the original polls are not the numbers that would respond to this one. the number of players overall have dropped drastically.

i agree that the polls should have been used through the community on the issue of merges because this is a major community issue. i just wanted to point out issues with the way the original polls were done with the vague questions and show that to get good polling numbers you actually have to give options so they can actually see what the community wants.

it's kinda like the polling numbers of:
do you think congress is doing a good job? no
do you think your representative in congress is doing a good job? yes

those results may show you hate the way congress is working, but since you support your rep and the majority supports theirs that will never change.