The Train is Back!

[Duskane]

Is it though dont fates have a 3 hour respawn time rather then 2 hours in anemos
Also the business of "Recycled" instances

[InkstainedGwyn]

I have a strong feeling that "recycled" instances were simply happening because so few people were going in, the odds of getting a "new" instance that was actually just recently abandoned was more likely. We'll see, though, I suppose.

[dark494]

This was a terrible decision on SE's part. It's nothing but a vicious cycle of pandering to half-baked complaints that creates more problems that leads to more complaints to more pandering. Now we have people trying to hamfist a train into this content, which is creating even more people taking the lazy afk route than before, and naive near-sighted thinking that you're actually making progress towards the relics by forcing a train into this content. NM's give very little light and that hasn't changed. You're going to see very soon a bunch of people use trains to get to whatever high level they stop at and then realize they have no light towards upgrading their relic and go back to quitting & complaining about how bad this or that is about Pagos, and then it's back to "balance changes" to pander to complaints again until this content is as unrecognizable from anemos, but with more gates. On the other end there's gonna be a sudden surge in people getting to 35 through the lazy NM method that it'll become too crowded to even do the light chain parties we were already doing because there's only 2 camp spots available to share and it'll lead to even more difficulties getting light, to more complaints, and more "balance changes" to pander to.

Just stop SE. Pick a philosophy and stick to it. Stop acquiescing to every lowest common denominator.

[HyoMinPark]

Stop acquiescing

They’re acquiescing because this content was dying before Week 2 even hit. A change like this wouldn’t come about due to complaints by themselves; there’s been plenty of other complaints that have garnered no response or reaction from SE in the past. They must have noticed the sheer amount of players refusing to step into the content, and the number of instances dying/being recycled to reneg this quickly.

While I’m thankful for the return of the train so that I can no longer feel like leveling up in Pagos is a horrid and tedious affair, the content itself is still far from perfect. And I can only hope that SE actually listens to sound requests from the playerbase for Installment #3. If, by then, they still haven’t added more variety (e.g., Daily Quests) or, at the very least, a Party Level Sync function, then it will be clear to me that they don’t really care about the state of the content they release, nor for the feedback or constructive criticism from the playerbase.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

This was a terrible decision on SE's part. It's nothing but a vicious cycle of pandering to half-baked complaints that creates more problems that leads to more complaints to more pandering. Now we have people trying to hamfist a train into this content, which is creating even more people taking the lazy afk route than before, and naive near-sighted thinking that you're actually making progress towards the relics by forcing a train into this content. NM's give very little light and that hasn't changed. You're going to see very soon a bunch of people use trains to get to whatever high level they stop at and then realize they have no light towards upgrading their relic and go back to quitting & complaining about how bad this or that is about Pagos, and then it's back to "balance changes" to pander to complaints again until this content is as unrecognizable from anemos, but with more gates. On the other end there's gonna be a sudden surge in people getting to 35 through the lazy NM method that it'll become too crowded to even do the light chain parties we were already doing because there's only 2 camp spots available to share and it'll lead to even more difficulties getting light, to more complaints, and more "balance changes" to pander to.

Just stop SE. Pick a philosophy and stick to it. Stop acquiescing to every lowest common denominator.

If the content cannot handle 100+ level 35 players chaining mobs, then it's terribly designed content in need of a balance change. This philosophy you speak of shouldn't be dependent on enough people staying low level they won't all congregate together. The whole they're acquiescing is due to Pagos dying two weeks after release. Do you honestly think these changes occur this rapidly if Pagos were successful content the majority of players enjoy? It's intended to be for casual players looking to fill their time yet demands a longer grind than clearing Savage; all for gear rendered irrelevant outside glamor in less than a month. Simply put, the philosophy SE attempted to impose failed spectacularly, and now they're trying to salvage it so it doesn't end up like Diadem.

This is exactly the problem. Trains will not get you the relic. NM's will not give you any meaningful amount of light. It will take you literal ages to get a relic off of train NM's only. People need to wake up to this.

But it will get you to level 35, which is one of the biggest hurdles. If chaining mobs does prove the only way and people aren't interested, well, the community has once again spoken: they don't like the content. Going by your logic, SE should stubbornly tell players to just accept how it is. They did that, it resulted in Diadem, the first instance so unpopular they outright mentioned closing it and moving the rewards elsewhere. Digging in their heels when the majority of players hate your content is among the dumbest things you can do.

[dark494]

They’re acquiescing because this content was dying before Week 2 even hit.

The whole they're acquiescing is due to Pagos dying two weeks after release.

I don't know where you guys get off saying this content was dead or dying because it couldn't be further from the truth. We have had several thousands of players in several discord servers coordinating efforts in multitudes of ways, we've tracked hundreds of different, unique, instances being utilized and recycled and even figured out how they're handling it. Instances are always full, dozens of PF's up regularly recruiting people, it's never dead, not even close. We have more data to back that up than baseless assumptions that "Oh, SE must have made these changes because this content must have been dying." This is meaningless coming from people who had no interest in even participating nor putting in any effort in this content. And I wouldn't expect those kinds of people to understand why those of us that did put in that effort and liked how rewarding it was are extremely slighted and put-off by this rehash of lazy train mentality from anemos all over again.

And for what it's worth, early reports are showing that the "train" is making NM's take longer to spawn than usual. Much longer.

[BillyKaplan]

I don't know where you guys get off saying this content was dead or dying because it couldn't be further from the truth.

Then SE would've had no reason to make this change, but here we are. The fact they also keep adding in the patch notes that they'll continue adjusting Pagos means they're fully aware how dissatisfied the playerbase is with this. It's like people who kept saying MSQ roulette was fine after the cutscene changes, and then SE turns around and basically tripled the awards. Hmmmm wonder why they did that what a mystery.

We have had several thousands of players in several discord servers coordinating efforts in multitudes of ways

Not that I believe that number is relevant for anything, but this game boasts 10Mil subscriptions. Even cutting it down to a more logical number, "several thousands" isn't even a drop in the bucket for content that's supposed to cater to the vast majority of players. It might look like a lot to you, but it really isn't.

This is meaningless coming from people who had no interest in even participating nor putting in any effort in this content.

First, hi Ad Hominem, wondered where you'd show up. Second, you mean that as an insult, but that's the core reason why a lot of people don't run the content, but not from laziness, but lack of return of investment.

And I wouldn't expect those kinds of people to understand why those of us that did put in that effort and liked how rewarding it was are extremely slighted and put-off by this rehash of lazy train mentality from anemos all over again.

I'm laughing because some of the people you're debating with (myself excluded, I'm a filthy casual) progress Savage and last I heard, UwU. They're not afraid of commitment or effort.

[Tsumdere]

First, hi Ad Hominem, wondered where you'd show up. Second, you mean that as an insult, but that's the core reason why a lot of people don't run the content, but not from laziness, but lack of return of investment.

Not to mention that a lot of the people who dislike Pagos are max level and contributed in said Discords.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. You didn't play Pagos? Then you can't talk. You did play Pagos? Then you clearly liked it because if you didn't like it you would have not played it.

[HyoMinPark]

I don't know where you guys get off saying this content was dead or dying because it couldn't be further from the truth.

I guess we’ll just ignore the multitude of reports of instances dying fairly quickly and being recycled fairly quickly. And the reports of instances having 2~3 members left in it (sometimes even just 1) when Louhi spawns.

We have had several thousands of players in several discord servers coordinating efforts in multitudes of ways, we've tracked hundreds of different, unique, instances being utilized and recycled and even figured out how they're handling it. Instances are always full, dozens of PF's up regularly recruiting people, it's never dead, not even close. We have more data to back that up than baseless assumptions that "Oh, SE must have made these changes because this content must have been dying."

Then why make these changes so soon? If the content wasn’t struggling, why make all these adjustments to it? Inb4 comments of “because people complained”—people complained that Weeping City, Dun Scaith, Final Steps, Royal Menagerie, and Castrum Fluminis were too hard and needed to be nerfed because people could not clear. Strange how no adjustments were ever made to these pieces of content. Maybe because they weren’t actually unclearable?

This is meaningless coming from people who had no interest in even participating nor putting in any effort in this content. And I wouldn't expect those kinds of people to understand why those of us that did put in that effort and liked how rewarding it was are extremely slighted and put-off by this rehash of lazy train mentality from anemos all over again.

I would appreciate it if you wouldn’t assume things about my character. But, of course, that is what tends to happen when people cannot actually argue the point—they turn to arguing the character of the person they’re disagreeing with instead. I tried Pagos, mind you. It wasn’t rewarding. It was tiring and tedious; and it wasn’t just me who felt that: that was a sentiment that was shared across the majority of the playerbase in all 3 regions. Hence why changes and hotfixes were implemented as early as Week 2 after the content was released.

As for effort, I’m a Savage raider that has been progging UwU for hours on end since its release, and I progged UCoB for 5~6 days a week, 4 hours each day, for a month and a half as a recruit for a group that fell apart before 4.2 and Sigmascape dropped—I may not have cleared (yet), but I made it to Blackfire. As for UwU, I’m progging towards Annihilation. I have also done several past relics with no complaints towards their grinds (unnerfed and nerfed), and I spent the time to get all 15 Anemos weapons, and have over 50% completion on all Anemos gearsets while also helping friends of mine that were level 5 and below level up to 20 and get gear that they wanted/needed. I don’t shy away from putting in time and effort into things. So, again. I would appreciate it if you would stop assuming things about my character since you don’t know me. You don’t see me debating your character.

What an asinine statement. I tried Pagos wanting to like it. I was hoping that they would improve it. They didn't. I played Pagos but didn't like it because it is a flawed system totally devoid of fun. I no longer play it.

He’s being sardonic.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

snip

A development team doesn't nerf content two weeks after it's release if it's widely popular. In fact, FFXIV has a precedence for waiting several weeks or months to gauge player reception. Look how long they took adjusting Diadem or PvP. Considering how quickly these Pagos changes are coming, that speaks to its utter lack of mainstream appeal. Instances remain filled up because they're routinely being recycled. I suppose we ought to simply ignore the sheer number of people posting pictures where their instances have died, hmm? You know what else has thousands of clears? Ultimate. That amounts to less than 1% of the playerbase. As Billy said above, it make sound like a lot at face value but relative to the game's overall population, it's a drop in the bucket. A perfect example would be Savage. Did they reduce it's difficulty for the lulz or because clear rates were low, thus insinuating people didn't want to do it?

As for effort. You're speaking to someone with multiple Animas, Savage clears, Ultimate prog on both tiers and even the Whisper-a-Go-Go mount. So about that effort? Perhaps you should leave your baseless assumptions at the door. After all, you know what they say about assumptions...