White Raven earring given out at The Rising event 2018

[Darrcyphfeid]

If you're only doing the content because of the rewards and you don't enjoy the content itself, then I think that's something I'd step back and look at. I wouldn't want to play a game that I didn't have fun playing.

And therein lies the rub, eh? The game doesn't put out a large quantity of any one content type, it puts out tiny amounts of multiple content types. If you don't find enjoyment in raiding, for example, there's a large segment of an even patch that means nothing to you - and what you do get has been downsized in two consecutive expansions. They counter this, somewhat, with the non-Savage mode giving you the story and some gear that isn't dyeable. They leave things in Savage, beyond the BiS gear such as the mounts and dyeable options, to try to incentive more people to still go in.

Think about how many mounts/minions/glamours come from things that don't make a lot of logical sense. Look at how many things in the game don't give rewards whatsoever, and then consider how few people are doing that content. If we want to talk about minorities, there's your most noticeable one: People that do things in this game because they enjoy them, instead of doing them because they have a reward they want. Hell look at how many rewards they've thrown into PvP to try to incentivize people to do that; they even simplified everything and threw in PvE EXP.

My FC is currently farming all of the wolves, because it's fun to clear current content and succeed at it.

Anecdotally, I would question how much of this is having fun clearing and farming content versus how much it is enjoying time with friends. Because I notice you say FC and not that you're joining PUGs, which is something I do as well. For me, while there are a couple of exceptions, I don't find the EX Primals fun once I've cleared them and I know I would have next to no enjoyment dealing with random people while farming on top of that.

Undersized party is great for grabbing a couple friends, some of who invariably get drunk while on healer and "accidentally" kill people in hilarious ways, and just cheesing everything for an hour or two. But that's not really us enjoying the game or the thing we're doing, which for the most part is interchangeable, and does fuel our collective apathy towards bothering with stuff while relevant. Some are better players than others which also detracts/encourages, but it's also things "well we have 99 Tokens now, may as well stop with this one" and "well this is taking ~10 minutes per clear, let's do something else and come back next expansion." That's all I'm saying.

We spent 3h last night on Ifrit without one mount; Susano usually gives his out faster than that.

Hours don't really mean much in this context, to be fair. I get the sentiment that RNG is RNG, but the number of clears is the only worthwhile metric here. If you've got people afking or being slow, or people trying to push him and causing wipes, that skews things.

And if we're taking the "things should never get easier route"

I'm choosing to ignore all of the hyperbole:

1) There's a distinct lack of the "certain" qualifier here. That is, "certain things should [be respected]"
2) There's a stark contrast between becoming easier and what undersized party toggle does.

[Rogatum]

Leaving the earrings aside or any exclusive reward for that matter at the door. I cannot be the only person that feel it is slightly worrying that SE has to provide incentives via rewards to get people to take part in content. I do not know it just seems that SE has a lack of faith in their content / class design if they need to use carrot on a stick to get players to become engaged. Do not get me wrong rewards are awesome, but I cannot say that I have ever engaged in a content simply for a reward. Probably the only person that feels this way since I guess that is the bases of game design.

[polyphonica]

Leaving the earrings aside or any exclusive reward for that matter at the door. I cannot be the only person that feel it is slightly worrying that SE has to provide incentives via rewards to get people to take part in content. I do not know it just seems that SE has a lack of faith in their content / class design if they need to use carrot on a stick to get players to become engaged. Do not get me wrong rewards are awesome, but I cannot say that I have ever engaged in a content simply for a reward. Probably the only person that feels this way since I guess that is the bases of game design.

I would say, from conversations about a lot of other MMOs these days as well, rewards are now an important incentivizing factor for many players. In fact, if you check social media whenever an FFXIV event is announced, many of the initial comments/complaints revolve around the rewards. This is also why the promotional material feature the rewards prominently. I guess people have been sort of reprogrammed to not just play videogames for the inherent fun, but to chase the carrot. (Perhaps part of this is because the MMO genre in general relies on repetition/grinding as a time sink, so people will do things that become less fun over time as long as there's light at the end of the tunnel.)

[KisaiTenshi]

I guess people have been sort of reprogrammed to not just play videogames for the inherent fun, but to chase the carrot.

Almost. Rather games have been sliding towards casino-slot-machine skinner boxes, and players have been conditioned to do the least amount of work for the greatest reward, even if it means breaking the rules.

[Ruf]

Almost. Rather games have been sliding towards casino-slot-machine skinner boxes, and players have been conditioned to do the least amount of work for the greatest reward, even if it means breaking the rules.

Wooooooowooooow

[Tint]

I would say, from conversations about a lot of other MMOs these days as well, rewards are now an important incentivizing factor for many players.

It already was this way when I startetd playing my first MMO in 2003. You were always grinding towards some goal, or at least you were helping other people towards their goal.

Almost. Rather games have been sliding towards casino-slot-machine skinner boxes, and players have been conditioned to do the least amount of work for the greatest reward, even if it means breaking the rules.

You mean like getting these earrings for doing 3 easy fates instead for beating a super hard bossfight?

[ko_]

It already was this way when I startetd playing my first MMO in 2003. You were always grinding towards some goal, or at least you were helping other people towards their goal.



You mean like getting these earrings for doing 3 easy fates instead for beating a super hard bossfight?

You say that, but I bet there's a large group of people who can't even do THAT. - yes I know you're just being sarcastic to the person you qouted.. but I seen too many people fail things in this game. I bet there's a large group who want the fates nerfed lol.

[kikix12]

Rewards are nice and all, but I think that you people forgot why this thread was even made, really. It's not about the reward, it's about it being 'exclusive' previously but made open for a wide number of people.

The only real problem is that there were any items made 'exclusive' in the first place though. Personally I am against exclusive or limited rewards in any MMO game. Heck, in any game. Which is why event-tied rewards in games like Pokemon are horrendous idea as well. They should never have begun with that. And similarly, item mall (which really shouldn't even have been implemented in a subscription-based game) should be separated from the game. In-game rewards should stay in-game, not be put on the item mall. They should be re-obtainable, like bought from the merchant during future iterations of the event, possibly with whatever token is earned in it rather than gil.

"Limiting" rewards leads to situations like this. Some people don't care about others getting the same stuff they did, because they know they don't actually lose anything out of it. Others feel somehow harmed for whatever reason. And those that didn't get the rewards the first time around are going to complain that they don't have access to the item or that they have to pay (outrageous) prices for the rewards that others got for free. It's fine for physical limited editions, like the statues, plushies and what not. Those can be gotten from those that bought them originally. Ultimately everything in the real world is "limited edition" since everything will stop being produced once better products are made, and that's fine. It's not fine for digital stuff that on top of being "limited time only" for obtaining is also going to disappear in a couple of years when the servers are gonna be taken down.

[BillyKaplan]

We'll see how the level-sync thing goes when we hit 5.0. And even if the fight on-level will be synced level and ilvl wise, he didn't quite say he won't allow unsyncing of it. After all, fights on-level can be made quite easier as you increase ilvl, I took his comment to be more about that. The context of people currently hitting UCoB furthers cements it, because then progress people have made goes out the window as they get better gear. But if it's still with a hard level cap, it won't matter as much if at all. But I wouldn't take it as a promise they'll never make it more accessible like they did anything else.
That said, I fully expect it to be something running it unsync will make easier, not cheeseable. People still wipe on Seph Ex after all, that's how well that one aged ♥

[Dzian]

Leaving the earrings aside or any exclusive reward for that matter at the door. I cannot be the only person that feel it is slightly worrying that SE has to provide incentives via rewards to get people to take part in content. I do not know it just seems that SE has a lack of faith in their content / class design if they need to use carrot on a stick to get players to become engaged. Do not get me wrong rewards are awesome, but I cannot say that I have ever engaged in a content simply for a reward. Probably the only person that feels this way since I guess that is the bases of game design.

It's human nature. Connects to prestige. Humans naturally seek prestige in some form it's often considered humanities biggest motivator. Be it accomplishment. Reward. Recognition, Praise, Game or any other element associated with prestige.
The reason humans seek it is because all these things associated with prestige generally provide dopamine hits and feel good which then drives people to seek more and more.

If you enjoy something it's just a bonus. But the driving reason to do something is for those hits and any prestigious elements they offer. You might for example love cooking and thoroughly enjoy it. That's great. but there's nothing better than having the people you just cooked for tell you the food was absolutely amazing. That little recognition of your efforts is a huge buzz.

It's also why it can absolutely destroy you if you put your heart and soul into making an amazing meal and don't even get so much as a thank you for it.

Or people with work. The only reason most people go to work each day is because of the pay cheque at the end of the month... if you look at various career studies some job sites do apparently less than 17% of people actually enjoy there jobs. I dunno if that just British or a global average though just something I read on reed.