White Raven earring given out at The Rising event 2018

[Miste]

It seems I'm in the process of getting ganged up on by rather careless readers though, so I'll take my leave. Communication is bound to be a fruitless endeavor when dealing with people who would rather win an argument than understand what was said.

I mean, that is pretty rich coming from you.

Our exchange was generally pretty normal and I was simply asking you questions in order to understand your point of view....quite civil really......until you got snide and passive aggressive with me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm surprised that actually needed explaining. If you need further explanations of such trivial reasoning, I will not bother responding again.

You are right. I apologize. I assumed you understood what hypocrisy was and worked off that assumption, but that was an erroneous assumption. My argument is of course not hypocritical simply because other people who are not me behave in some particular fashion, as neither I nor my argument are accountable for things outside the scope of that argument.

When you make a blanket statement about something it can be hypocritical, I'm sorry that you didn't realize this. It has nothing to do with how others are behaving and I questioned you in my first reply which you could have answered, but you didn't. That is not my problem~ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

:thinking:

You took that quote out of context. It was simply an explanation on why the argument of "grow up" is hypocritical. It doesn't reflect my personal opinions on this matter.

Unless you were just using it as a point to jump your thoughts off of, then I understand what you mean.

[JunseiKei]

You took that quote out of context. It was simply an explanation on why the argument of "grow up" is hypocritical. It doesn't reflect my personal opinions on this matter.

Unless you were just using it as a point to jump your thoughts off of, then I understand what you mean.

It doesn't matter if I took it out its original context because I gave it a new context anyway. Especially since it was not the first time I had read "add replica to the name and it's fine." You just happened to be the last person I read at the time to mention this solution again, so I quoted you. Nor do I care about the grow up statement that was previously made. It was a legitimate question of where is the cut-off and is there a cut-off to begin with? I'm asking would simply adding "replica" to all legacy items actually stop the griping or would a new gripe begin once more legacy items were made available through these means.

[Dualgunner]

What progress would be stifled here?

[Theodric]

What progress would be stifled here?

Granting current players access to items that are no longer obtainable is progress. Especially when they're tied to the more interesting parts of the game's lore. There are a lot of fans of all things Garlemald, myself included.

Furthermore, the developers already seem to believe that they have to tread on thin ice and not change things to any major extent. We don't need such a mentality reinforced. Imagine if FFXI players demanded that things like the scorpion harness were removed from Eureka because they already showed up back in FFXI? That'd be just as ridiculous as the arguments against the earrings from 1.0 being added. Again, note how numerous 1.0 players have stated that they are completely fine with the earrings being added and some of those arguing against it aren't even 1.0 players themselves.

[Dualgunner]

Especially when they're tied to the more interesting parts of the game's lore. There are a lot of fans of all things Garlemald, myself included.

Okay, so you want the White Ravens because you're a Garlemald fan. Fair enough. Replica White Ravens would serve your purposes just as well.

[Bahati]

I don't see the point of arguing the importance of the earrings themselves. That is a personal opinion with no right or wrong answer nor is anyone entitled to telling another they are caring too much or too little. To each their own opinion.

The point is the people in here trying to set rules for what SE can and cannot do with their game and the items they put in it. This is a non-negotiable fact that everyone here with an active sub has agreed to. Allow me to post the direct wording of the ToS:

YOU ACQUIRE NO OWNERSHIP OR PROPERTY RIGHTS IN ANY CHARACTER OR OTHER IN-GAME VIRTUAL GOOD, AND ARE ONLY LICENSED TO USE SUCH CHARACTERS AND ASSETS ASSOCIATED WITH YOUR FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNT SUBJECT TO THE CONDITIONS SET FORTH IN THE AGREEMENTS. YOU AGREE THAT YOUR FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNT AND ANY VIRTUAL GOODS AND CHARACTERS DO NOT HAVE ANY MONETARY VALUE. SQUARE ENIX MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNTS, CHARACTERS, VIRTUAL GOODS, OR THE SERVICE ALTOGETHER, AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR FOR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE OR LIABILITY TO YOU.

[JunseiKei]

why does it matter if the item is named replica or not?

:thinking:

What happens if SE takes this to heart and does this for legacy items, re-released as replicas, then vocal legacy players speak their displeasure with this as well? Are we not back to square one? Then it's even less about the "value" of the item or the memories that may have been incurred, but a status symbol that shouldn't be obtained "again" (since it was really just the same item, renamed). You cannot guarantee that no one will be upset over this solution, either. Despite, you know, this being a thing and why so much 'value' is being placed on something you cannot even own:

Allow me to post the direct wording of the ToS:

YOU ACQUIRE NO OWNERSHIP OR PROPERTY RIGHTS IN ANY CHARACTER OR OTHER IN-GAME VIRTUAL GOOD, AND ARE ONLY LICENSED TO USE SUCH CHARACTERS AND ASSETS ASSOCIATED WITH YOUR FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNT SUBJECT TO THE CONDITIONS SET FORTH IN THE AGREEMENTS. YOU AGREE THAT YOUR FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNT AND ANY VIRTUAL GOODS AND CHARACTERS DO NOT HAVE ANY MONETARY VALUE. SQUARE ENIX MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNTS, CHARACTERS, VIRTUAL GOODS, OR THE SERVICE ALTOGETHER, AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR FOR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE OR LIABILITY TO YOU.

(Thanks again for posting the actual snip-it from the Terms of Service.)

[Canadane]

:thinking:

What happens if SE takes this to heart and does this for legacy items, re-released as replicas, then vocal legacy players speak their displeasure with this as well? Are we not back to square one?

The White Ravens are completely unrelated to the Legacy Campaign.
Many people seem to be confusing these to belong together.

This isn't about legacy anything. It's simply about a raid reward that people got after completing the fight for the fights sake. The reward was not expected going into the fight, it was awarded for their accomplishments after the fact, not unlike how real medals are given out.

[JunseiKei]

The White Ravens are completely unrelated to the Legacy Campaign.
Many people seem to be confusing these to belong together.

This isn't about legacy anything. It's simply about a raid reward that people got after completing the fight for the fights sake. The reward was not expected going into the fight, it was awarded for their accomplishments after the fact, not unlike how real medals are given out.

If people can't do the content to get the reward, then they effectively have dead-weight status symbols laying around that some people appreciate the false scarcity of because they put value on it. They waited two full expansions and then some to basically unlock one earring model with only glamour value. You can easily see if someone is a legacy player or not and have their "fake Gucci bag" and not the real thing.

(Coming from someone else, but typed in fewer words ... and got tired of hearing my mechanical keyboard through my headset as I typed. >_>)

[Nestama]

The White Ravens are completely unrelated to the Legacy Campaign.
Many people seem to be confusing these to belong together.

This isn't about legacy anything. It's simply about a raid reward that people got after completing the fight for the fights sake. The reward was not expected going into the fight, it was awarded for their accomplishments after the fact, not unlike how real medals are given out.

To which I really can't sympathise, since everyone can go back and do Coils unsync'd and (sans T9) easily claim the (irrelevant and pretty much only for desynthing now since there are dye-able replicas) rewards. This also includes the Final Witness title and the Louisoix minion.

It did rub me the wrong way for a short while, but then I stopped caring about it... because I've since done that with the HW Trials that I never did when they were released (also for the mounts), as well as The Manipulator Savage.