White Raven earring given out at The Rising event 2018

[InkstainedGwyn]

Just a reminder: this is not a game that preserves the sanctity of events. I can walk into Titan EX right now on a 70 and solo him as many times as I want to get his mount. The only reason 1.0 events were "preserved" was because the game wasn't viable and couldn't continue as it was.

And I find it highly entertaining that this is a fight that's so well beloved that I never heard of it short of offhand mentions in lore discussions or lists of "things I did in 1.0" before Rising 2018 was announced, yet now that this has come up it's become the sacred, holy grail fight of 1.0.

[Sigma-Astra]

Honestly, I think we should just cancel the reward system for The Rising at this point because of what's going on. No one is coming together as a community (as far as this side of the forum goes anyways) over the event because so many people would rather cling to an item that's five years old and determine who's self-worthy enough to have it and who doesn't deserve it instead of the memories behind said item and sharing what they know about the fight. The event is suppose to be about the history of said game, so maybe we should just do away with the carrot-on-the-stick if people are this easily offended and made to feel invalidated about something that literally no one else can go back and say they did without the proper achievement evidence for it.

I wonder if the JP side of the forums argues this much over exclusives and whether or not one side of the community shouldn't have them over the other side as much as we do.

[Mahrze]

Honestly, I think we should just cancel the reward system for The Rising at this point because of what's going on. No one is coming together as a community (as far as this side of the forum goes anyways) over the event because so many people would rather cling to an item that's five years old and determine who's self-worthy enough to have it and who doesn't deserve it instead of the memories behind said item and sharing what they know about the fight. The event is suppose to be about the history of said game, so maybe we should just do away with the carrot-on-the-stick if people are this easily offended and made to feel invalidated about something that literally no one else can go back and say they did without the proper achievement evidence for it.

I wonder if the JP side of the forums argues this much over exclusives and whether or not one side of the community shouldn't have them over the other side as much as we do.

It's a cultural thing. Sadly we can all agree to disagree here over basically everything. Its what happens with a game that is trying to encompass so much

Need a hug? :P

People keep mementos IRL as well for the same reason. Like a wedding ring, or some kind of gift that was given to them by someone else that could even be "digital" and others don't even care about stuff like that.

I wanna preface this reply that I am aware you don't share this mentality, but I am adding this for the sake of clarity.

But the whole reason a memento is a memento is to remember that moment/event. It holds a value to you, individually. Being up in arms "collectively" because you "individually" feel its taking away value to your memory is... just silly.

By a similar contrast you can have a coin that is worth something because it was given to you by someone special and I can have a coin with the same monetary value and I freely spend it. Does that take away from your memory?

I understand your reasoning and I can see the perspective. Still doesn't take away that people are using emotions as a "reason" rather than realizing that that item is worth more to you who have it/earned it when it was relevant than it is now for those who get it with this event, and it doesn't need a public distinction/difference for it to make your memory matter.

[Sigma-Astra]

It's a cultural thing. Sadly we can all agree to disagree here over basically everything. Its what happens with a game that is trying to encompass so much

Need a hug? :P

I'm good. :P I'm about to head off towards my second job anyways~

[Dzian]

You can't really compare a wedding ring, a physical object that is radically different from one person towards the next, towards a digital item that will look the same on everyone else who wears it.

My engagement ring looks nothing like any one else's and yes, one could argue that it's just a bunch of diamonds, so they all use the same material. But, at the same time, the value shouldn't be in the object itself, but who gave it to you. If you're placing much more stock in the item itself than the person on the other end? I think some self-reflection might be needed, lol. I wear this ring not because it's expensive or pretty looking, but I wear it because I want the world to know that my heart belongs to someone else and I'm proud and happy to be with them, nothing more than that.

One can also argue that you can be and feel married towards another without a physical object to reflect it. But, that's a whole other topic for another day.

But how would you feel if you discovered your partner was giving out those engagements rings to everyone he met that wanted one?

Suddenly your ring wouldn't feel as special would it if your partner was giving them out freely to everyone. I imagine you'd be pretty angry....

The white ravens are no different it's not what the item is. It's why the item signifies and why you have it.. they start throwing them out to everyone and the significance of that item is crushed

[Mahrze]

But how would you feel if you discovered your partner was giving out those engagements rings to everyone he met that wanted one?

Suddenly your ring wouldn't feel as special would it if your partner was giving them out freely to everyone. I imagine you'd be pretty angry....

The white ravens are no different it's not what the item is. It's why the item signifies and why you have it.. they start throwing them out to everyone and the significance of that item is crushed

It isn't. You decide it does.

You just made my afternoon. ♥

Then here's hoping that afternoon stays fantastic ;D

I'm good. :P I'm about to head off towards my second job anyways~

Have fun o/ Keep in touch on discord :P

[Iscah]

But how would you feel if you discovered your partner was giving out those engagements rings to everyone he met that wanted one?

Suddenly your ring wouldn't feel as special would it if your partner was giving them out freely to everyone. I imagine you'd be pretty angry....

The white ravens are no different it's not what the item is. It's why the item signifies and why you have it.. they start throwing them out to everyone and the significance of that item is crushed

I’d see this more like the jeweller that made the ring giving copies of it out to others. It doesn’t change the significance of your ring.

Where it gets muddy is that in real life, anyone else who got the identical ring still does not have your ring, just something exactly physically like it.

That distinction can’t exist in the game (other than calling them replicas of course). From an in-universe perspective, these earrings being given out to commemorate the Rising are still not your earrings. They just look exactly alike, to the point that nobody else could tell them apart.


Someone earlier mentioned Haurchefant’s shield, which I do indeed treasure as an item in-game just as if it was a real object, a gift given to me. And yet... you can buy another one from the Calamity Salvager. It’s the exact same ‘unique’ item. You could throw it away and buy another one later and the game won’t see it as anything different.

When the glamour dresser was first introduced, and putting things in there was “reducing them to a glamoured image”, I couldn’t possibly do that to a treasured gift - so I stowed it in my saddlebag and bought a new one from the salvager to put in the dresser. The game makes no distinction between those two shields, but I knew. One was precious and the other was a perfect but meaningless replica I’d bought from a merchant.


(And yes, pixels on a screen and all that. I do realise that at the boringest level of reality I’ve been given an image of a shield by a fictional character, but so long as I’m engaged in this story, I-as-my-character will treasure it.)

[Sigma-Astra]

But how would you feel if you discovered your partner was giving out those engagements rings to everyone he met that wanted one?

Suddenly your ring wouldn't feel as special would it if your partner was giving them out freely to everyone. I imagine you'd be pretty angry....

The white ravens are no different it's not what the item is. It's why the item signifies and why you have it.. they start throwing them out to everyone and the significance of that item is crushed

....You....WHAT!?

How is that even remotely something comparable. That's a horrible argument, please stop using it.

You can't compare a physical item that costs anywhere from $100 to $20,000 to a digital item that literally costs you nothing to get except maybe a $12 sub fee. (I don't know what the sub fee for 1.0 is, this is an estimate.)

Please, after 7 hours of customer service. My brain just can't. STAHP.

[Stormfur]

This is not, in any way, comparable to anything in real life.

The ONLY thing they have in common is that things in real life can have meaning for you, just as things in a game can have meaning for you. I don't think anyone here is disputing that. The amount of meaning, definitely -- but that's always going to vary from person to person.

Like I mentioned in a previous post, the Nidhogg weapons have especially significant meaning to me. If that fight disappeared tomorrow and they made the weapons available to everyone just for doing a FATE -- I wouldn't care despite the fact that it took me weeks of practice to down that sucker. First, because it happened years ago. Second because no one will ever understand how significant my triumph was (nor do I expect them to).

I think a lot of the veterans here are expecting the rest of us to understand their toils and tribulations and give just as much meaning and...deference, maybe? to the item as they do. And we don't. We can't. You could come close to seeing how I felt at the end of the Nidhogg fight if you did it synced with one eye closed, but it won't be 100% exactly the same. If we do the 1.0 Nael fight, it won't be 100% exactly the same, but it will be close.

And then after the event, I would hope, we could all come together and say "yeah, that was definitely a challenge! We sure have come a long way since the early days, haven't we?"

But having this over-arching view of "I did the fight half a decade ago to deserve those earrings - and you didn't go through exactly the same hardships so you don't deserve them" would leave a pretty bare-bones population in this MMO. You think everyone gets their pony and bird mounts today by doing the fights synced? I highly doubt it.

[hydralus]

Well, could be worse. Could be selling them for $9.99