Bringing the train back to Pagos?

[Grover42]

This thread didn't make it a whole page before it got derailed lol. Please remember that I was hoping to bring up discussion on how to create a light train, not the old NM train. The old NM train is just not even possible in Pagos is unless you're free to travel around the map (32+). So please, let's not keep going down that rabbit hole.

Also, everything that people hated about the old train, leeching/afk is much less possible with my idea. I was against people doing zero work and reaping all the rewards, sadly that's just what a lot of people ended up doing and I understand why steps were put in place to stop it. The light farm is now the roadblock, and I'm hoping to make that part of Pagos easier for the people that have already worked to get to, or near, max level already. No level 20 is going to be doing this light train.

So, let's try to keep on subject. Thank you!

[Bourne_Endeavor]

The NM Train was an unintended side-effect of how they made NM's spawn, it was borderline cheating, since it allowed players to burn through the content at a rate that allowed them to complete in a day what should have been a months worth of (grind) content, and without levelsync allowed players to be powerleveled with no effort.

Finding a better alternative than the devs intended isn't remotely close to cheating. How you keep attempting to correlate cheating with everything that isn't strictly as the devs want boggles the mind.

[Krojack]

The train is horrible for the most part. 90% of the people in it don't even help pop fates. They just stand around and use cheer emotes.

There should be a middle ground though. Pagos fate spawn rate is pathetic. I was in a few for almost the full 3 hours and only saw 2 fates spawn. I'm just a little into lvl 34 and I only have 390 crystals. I know people that had the 500 at level 30.

Fix the NM fate spawnning first.

[Deus-ExMachina]

This thread didn't make it a whole page before it got derailed lol. Please remember that I was hoping to bring up discussion on how to create a light train, not the old NM train. The old NM train is just not even possible in Pagos is unless you're free to travel around the map (32+). So please, let's not keep going down that rabbit hole.

Also, everything that people hated about the old train, leeching/afk is much less possible with my idea. I was against people doing zero work and reaping all the rewards, sadly that's just what a lot of people ended up doing and I understand why steps were put in place to stop it. The light farm is now the roadblock, and I'm hoping to make that part of Pagos easier for the people that have already worked to get to, or near, max level already. No level 20 is going to be doing this light train.

So, let's try to keep on subject. Thank you!

I mean killing an occational NM is kinda the fastest way to gain reliable light if it spawns while you grind light on efficient mobs. I also tried to participate in helping other groups chain the dragons which just resulted in them getting super mad claiming their light values get halved when I attack their mob (I have no confirmation on this one because generally light does not behave like exp in that regard but who knows).

So the hostility between different groups farming the same mobs just carries over from exp to light grinding at the moment which is not pleasant at all because most people are obsessed with their own progress and everyone else is a potential hinderance.

[Lubu_Mykono]

Can we get Ozzy Osbourne to advertise this game now that the "crazy train is back" like he did with WoW? lol

[Noodle_Trinidad]

One big mistake commonly made by players is assuming that the relic weapon is meant for casual players. It isn't. It has NEVER been meant for casual players, not in ARR, not in HW, and not now. While the difficulty is low, you're swapping out high difficulty for rather intense levels of grinding. Levels a casual player would never put up with.

Eureka was not meant for casual play. Thanks to the NM train, it BECAME casual friendly, but the NM train was, in all likelihood, an unintended consequence of the way Anemos was designed. Pagos is much more in line with the levels of monotonous, repetitive activity I've come to expect from a Relic weapon.

Excuse me what? The entire point of the Relic was an alternative for casual players to achieve over time as they do not have the time commitment to get the relevant Raid gear for each consequential patch. While a hardcore player can indeed acquire the Relic faster than a casual player and possibly more efficiently the entire concept of the Relic and its steps were for people to be able to log in spend around 30mins to an hour and make some kind of actual visual progress towards your weapon. 1.0/2.0's Relic and 3.0's Relic all had systems in place for players to either farm like no tomorrow and get it first before anyone else (ie ARF for Anima) or for people who can only do some casual content per day or week and still have some kind of meaningful progression towards it.

If we're going to assume that Relics are for the hardcore player or even the midcore player then its laughable given the content revolving around its progression has generally been mindnumbing and brainless in terms of actually doing it. Zodiac and Anima gave you a plethora of options but lets not kid ourselves that any of it required anything a casual player doesnt already do outside of extended time; the reason Pagos is doing so bad is because it goes against the design philosphy of the Relic itself on top of being some of the most disconnected piece of content released by the devs to date. It offers nothing in terms of progression for casual players and for those willing to suffer it all it brings is carpal tunnel and monotonous grind that you would be better off spending in a dungeon given the complexity of the chained mobs and NM is equal to that of dungeon trash and one of its 3 bosses.

[Zojha]

Excuse me what? The entire point of the Relic was an alternative for casual players to achieve over time as they do not have the time commitment to get the relevant Raid gear for each consequential patch.

Sorry, but no. Time commitment is exactly the thing the relic is for.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/276368
Alternatively:

I would like to add two points to this, the first one is about the relic quest, the anima weapon quest which is time consuming. You might say it’s going to be time consuming and it’s not really challenging but the reason we have this content in game is to support those who are not good at playing the game, say to beat the raid contents to get the higher items with higher item level, so if this relic quest was too difficult for them then it’s going to discourage them to try it, that’s why this is our intention to make it less challenging for the anima weapon quest.

https://www.ffxiv-eorzea.com/non-cla...gamescom-2016/

It's meant as an alternative for people who either cannot or do not want to do the raids, but want to put in extra time. In another interview I currently cannot find off the bat, he even said it's meant to cater to people "who like the traditional MMO grind". That's the direction they took with it after the initial step was too much of a roadblock and it's been holding pretty true so far, what with how Eureka turned out.
EDIT: The cadence at which that time is to be spent unfortunately is not specified.

For casual players with little time, the tome weapon is what's intended. As such, you'd generally assume Raiders get their weapons first, then the active relic grinders get theirs, then the tome weapon gets its upgrade released. That's not quite how it works this time around, though, unfortunately.

[Grover42]

I mean killing an occational NM is kinda the fastest way to gain reliable light if it spawns while you grind light on efficient mobs. I also tried to participate in helping other groups chain the dragons which just resulted in them getting super mad claiming their light values get halved when I attack their mob (I have no confirmation on this one because generally light does not behave like exp in that regard but who knows).

So the hostility between different groups farming the same mobs just carries over from exp to light grinding at the moment which is not pleasant at all because most people are obsessed with their own progress and everyone else is a potential hinderance.

I agree, but that's just because we haven't found a better way to farm light and why I brought up the subject. I saw the same reaction with people getting very upset with people hitting their group's monster, which is what stopped me from doing further tests with a larger alternate group (so far). As far it halving the light, the one time I got a light gain from hitting another group's monster, the same amount was given as if I was in that group. Granted, light gains have different levels even within feeble, so I doubt they really knew if you were taking half their light and likely think it works like exp does. Even if that were the case, killing NM monsters as a large group (old NM train) would net almost no light and through personal experience that just doesn't seem to be the case. I make decent light spawning Louhi with several groups there. One actual light train would be all it needs to test the theory.