We Really Need To Talk About The State And Path Of FFXIV

[Seraphyel]

I just leveled a brand new character. It was a breeze on a starter server and with the pre order earrings (I started last Sunday and reached 50 on two jobs yesterday). But...

... the MSQ is painful. Actually it's horrible. And that you're forced to do it to unlock Heavensward is even worse. Don't get me wrong, the story of the MSQ is - for an MMORPG - ok, at times very interesting (I prefer the Primal storyline over the Garlean Empire thing). The quest types and nonsensical stuff you have to do is not. There are several underlying issues I am sure a lot of people have already mentioned but I will get over my biggest gripes with it:

1. Too many filler quests. The MSQ is full of useless crap quests. Oh, there's a primal we have to fight? It's very urgent? Nevermind, first we have to do a dozen quests revolving around the banquet (yes, it's to prove your worthy to fight Titan... *sigh*) and get the perfect wine for it. This gets a bit better at higher levels but it's still absolutely unnecessary.

2. Too many talk-deliver-talk quests. I don't want to know how often Person A sent me to Person B to talk two sentences and then I have to return to Person A. It's talk-teleport-talk-teleport-talk. There are so many quests that follow this scheme and they're just horrible to play. I spent more time in the loading screen during those quests than with the quest itself.

3. Dungeons / trials requirements - I understand these things and as a healer I got instant invites until the level 50 group quests but as DPS it's annoying and I can understand frustration towards it. Nevertheless it makes sense story-wise but isn't very well done in the end.

The MSQ hasn't aged very well. For modern standards it's horrible when you're honest with yourself. 1 + 2 are 95% of the problems I'd say and especially for new players this might be a reason to quit FFXIV even before reaching the awesome expansions.

[Crafter_Cat]

As this is now a 114-page-long thread, I am pretty sure any points I would like to make have already been made, so I am going to just offer some terms that are kind of hard to look up until you've been told about them.

The term people seem to be looking for when they say "realism" is actually "verisimilitude". Basically, being believable and not knocking people forcibly out of their suspension of disbelief. There's a sort of transaction that goes on between the creator of any piece of fiction and their audience- basically, the audience doesn't intentionally look for the janky bits, and the creator does their best to hide the janky bits. Doesn't have to be realistic, just internally consistent and reasonably charitable to the audience's tolerance of the lack of realism.

A lot of the things about the game that seem to drive people nuts are breaks in verisimilitude. The maps that look super bad from angles the devs had every reason to expect them to be seen from, the plotlines that basically mock the player for putting up with fetch quests (yes, I am looking at the pre-Titan buildup as the worst offender I have seen yet), and even the classes that are massively broken until pretty much endgame are all broken verisimilitude. Even in a world with all the fantasy elements, they don't make sense in-world, they don't make the game more fun (which would make them more tolerable), and they don't add anything to the overall experience.

Then to the "but I/we've put so much into this" aspect. That's called the sunk cost fallacy, or just "throwing good money after bad". It's really easy to convince yourself that you can make something work with just a little more time/money/effort when you're heavily invested in it, because the more you already have invested, the bigger a mistake you've made (or at least, so says your hindbrain). "Fail Fast" was developed to try to weed out bad ideas before this mindset kicks in.

The tendency to mistake something as being caused by something else just because it comes about after the something else is "post hoc, ergo proctor hoc", literally "after this, therefore because of this", and people fall for it in a lot of cases because in much of everyday life, it serves well as common sense. Problem is, it's hard to tell without checking when you are in a case that it isn't working, so a lot of feedback is needed, which SE doesn't seem to care for.

Finally, I think these threads would be a lot more productive if people listened to one another's points rather than waiting to jump in, which I have been happy to see more of in the recent posts than the much earlier ones. Kudos!

[linay]

even the classes that are massively broken until pretty much endgame are all broken verisimilitude.

How are the classes broken before endgame?

[van_arn]

How are the classes broken before endgame?

I think they're referring to how most jobs have some wonky rotation or freestyle opener until they get their 70 skill.

[linay]

I think they're referring to how most jobs have some wonky rotation or freestyle opener until they get their 70 skill.

Eh, "wonky" seems too subjective and I would think there's always an optimum opener depending on the situation and level.

[Shurrikhan]

How are the classes broken before endgame?

The average ppm of different jobs varies tremendously with different level steps now that once you receive an ability, no matter its level, that ability must now be balanced around level 70 content, since all upgrade traits apart from ones which change the skill into one of different skill entirely were removed with the start of Stormblood. Oh, a skill which contributes the greatest portion of your oGCD healing at level 70? Here, have it at level 15. The other healers will get something almost as good at levels 60 and 50. You'll also do more Spell-based healing and damage than either of them for another 25 levels or more. And you'll be more mobile, of course. You'll need all that at level 70, after all.

[linay]

The average ppm of different jobs varies tremendously with different level steps now that once you receive an ability, no matter its level, that ability must now be balanced around level 70 content, since all upgrade traits apart from ones which change the skill into one of different skill entirely were removed with the start of Stormblood. Oh, a skill which contributes the greatest portion of your oGCD healing at level 70? Here, have it at level 15. The other healers will get something almost as good at levels 60 and 50. You'll also do more Spell-based healing and damage than either of them for another 25 levels or more. And you'll be more mobile, of course. You'll need all that at level 70, after all.

So you're complaining that different jobs get equivalent skills at different levels? It's not ideal, but I don't see how that's anything to do with "broken verisimilitude." If anything, making each job progress differently makes them distinct and increases verisimilitude.

[Melichoir]

Its more about how when some classes were balanced/reworked, their sub 70 versions turn into extremely boring slogs. Summoner is one that springs to mind from people Ive talked to.

[linay]

Its more about how when some classes were balanced/reworked, their sub 70 versions turn into extremely boring slogs. Summoner is one that springs to mind from people Ive talked to.

Fair enough, but again, it's subjective whether or not that's a bad thing and, either way, has nothing to do with verisimilitude.

[Callibus]

I know this thread is pretty much beaten to death with every issue, but I want to throw my two-cents in as a new player. I've played MMO's for at least 20 years, starting with Everquest back in 1999. I've seen some tedious, long-winded and boring gameplay. This game, for what I have seen, is really good! I love it and I want to play more. Unfortunately...not everything is good and fun. I have capped at 50, and need to complete a bloated story line in-order to progress to Heavensward. Now take into consideration that I also have a lot of free-time due to my work schedule. It's still taking forever to complete these quests. I'm burning out on the game already.

Someone mentioned to me that I can "pay to skip the AAR quests"...you've got to be kidding me. Why would I pay money to buy the game...buy a subscription...then pay MORE money just so I can actually progress and not beat my head against a wall. If anything THIS is the problem with player retention.