We Really Need To Talk About The State And Path Of FFXIV

[Mahrze]

200 Sastasha runs... I can solo that in about 50 hours. That's still more hours than needed for Eureka. I thought you want the reward to be equal if the time invested is equal?

200 sash runs in 50 hours? Nope, definitely not a grinding player.

[Seddrinth]

200 sash runs in 50 hours? Nope, definitely not a grinding player.

15 minutes per run seems like the average time it would take. 15 min X 200 runs = around 50 hours?

[Mahrze]

15 minutes per run seems like the average time it would take. 15 min X 200 runs = around 50 hours?

Are we talking about sync'd and via DF? Because otherwise, 15 mins is way too high.

[Seddrinth]

Are we talking about sync'd and via DF? Because otherwise, 15 mins is way too high.

You're right 15 min is probably synced with duty finder. Unsynced solo probably around 6-7 minutes... so about 25 hours to get the same gear as players who cleared savage? Does anyone really think this would be a good idea??

[Mahrze]

You're right 15 min is probably synced with duty finder. Unsynced solo probably around 6-7 minutes... so about 25 hours to get the same gear as players who cleared savage? Does anyone really think this would be a good idea??

Can't even math. /s

So you want Eureka reward to be equal to Savage raid if the time invested is equal, but you don't want Sestasha reward to be equal to Eureka if the time invested is equal? Why is that? You can't have it both ways lol.

The crux of your argument is that 50 hrs via DF+sync is a fair grind(see zodiac items grind), adding the carrying of noobs. 50 hrs unsync is easy for a whole 'Anemos' set just like you can farm savage after nerfs and echo land on it; you can accuse them of "having it both ways" as much as you can be accused of cherry-picking.

[Edax]

If that is your interpretation of my posts, you ought to read them again. Nowhere have I said the gear is needed. It isn't. You argued i370 gear should be available in other content like Eureka, to which I argued against because Savage asks significantly more in terms of attention and skill.

On the other hand, if you have no interest in Savage, then yes, the gear is entirely unnecessary since it's overkill for casual content.

No I was referring to different players with contradictory viewpoints telling me I don't understand the bare basics of MMORPGs.

I can't help but think that we just opened the eyes of someone about what PvE combat centric MMORPGs are about.

Tbh I can't believe we are 32 pages in and this person still doesn't understand why raiders get the gear we do.

To you Bourne_Endeavor, you have misinterpreted my posts. I am a casual player but I always seek to improve my character but I'm not a min/maxer. The problem is that despite the limited amount of time I play this game and despite my laidback style, I'm constantly hitting a limit. When I'm leveling through the game for the first time, I have so many different methods of leveling my character and getting better armor, via quests, crafting, duties, Palace of the Dead and hunts. Endgame, the methods of self-improvement shrink so dramatically, it's either tomes or raids. I buy a piece of gear with the tomes and I've effectively maxed out that gear piece (for half a year?) since I do not raid regularly. Because of that, I hardly have cause to actually play my combat class for weeks until I start forgetting where the hotkeys are and what the best rotations are. Eureka was a good way to solve this even if it was accidental, offering a method of improvement that was not the most difficult content or the most grindy but it kept me busy for months improving my character and more importantly playing my classes. But with Pagos designed to be frustrating and not offering gear beyond a relic, I've once again hit that wall where my combat classes aren't doing anything. If the crafting system were more developed, or the tomes more developed with an extra tier, I'd still have something to do.
The core problem: not enough endgame content.

To those that say raiders need the best gear, remember that's not fact, that's opinion. Other games just offer "Achievement Unlocked" when you do hard content. Many games don't bother giving you the best weapons and armor for tackling the hardest content, in fact many games remove the best gear and weapons specifically for that challenge. If you like or want raiders to get the best gear, that fine, but just remember that's an opinion and resorting to personal insults and name-calling like Lorgana has done, such as calling me a liar and a troll, just tells me they're not confident in their own opinions.

[Seddrinth]

Can't even math.

Let me help you relax a bit. We can have a discussion without resorting to insults.

The crux of your argument is that 50 hrs via DF+sync is a fair grind(see zodiac items grind), adding the carrying of noobs. 50 hrs unsync is easy for a whole 'Anemos' set just like you can farm savage after nerfs and echo land on it; you can accuse them of "having it both ways" as much as you can be accused of cherry-picking.

It was not my argument originally. It was the OP's argument that time spent in an activity should count toward the reward level regardless of difficulty. He wanted the rewards for Eureka to be the same as Savage raids if the time spend is the same. If that's what he wanted, then someone else doing fates or sastasha or whatever other low difficulty activity should be rewarded at the same level as his Eureka as long as the time invested is equal right? How is that cherry picking? If you want this type of reasoning for rewards then you should apply it evenly to all activities.

[OurMom]

To those that say raiders need the best gear, remember that's not fact, that's opinion. Other games just offer "Achievement Unlocked" when you do hard content. Many games don't bother giving you the best weapons and armor for tackling the hardest content, in fact many games remove the best gear and weapons specifically for that challenge.

May I ask what mmos? I've played almost everyone out for the past 10+ years and most of the ones I played gave you the best gear in game from doing the hardest content in said game. The few that didn't give you the best gear from raiding, had horizontal progression and you could get gear on par from crafting, but it was super hard to craft it. And still even in those games I believe the hardest world bosses dropped better items.

I've once again hit that wall where my combat classes aren't doing anything.

That's the problem with super casual/vertical progression games and honestly, even if Yoshi were to try and change that people would just complain that they don't have enough time. Or that it's too hard and "not fair" that people that can dedicate time can complete it or some other non sense.

It's best just to play this game in small bursts honestly until the general playerbase gets over it and realize that people that work harder will have better items.

[RiyahArp]

The items aren't better, though. In fact, BiS is virtually useless apart from the unofficial leaderboards at fflogs; most instances are capped low enough where it won't matter, and even expert doesn't see appreciable gains from it. I can tell from how fast the bosses melt, most of the time spent is actually walking, not fighting.

For glamour, the best ones ironically are in expert dungeons, many pre60. The problem really isn't so much not having raid gear as a casual, its how useless raids are in general. There are no upsides comparable to the huge downsides.

Let me expand. You essentialy end up doing this content not because of external rewards, but because of internal ones. You like hard content, so you raid. A lot of the external rewards really don't alter or help you play the game all that much; their are just trinkets. There's too much "need to have internal motivation" in this game, and a lot of things suffer for it; FCs for one struggle because the external stuff dries up and vanishes to a veteran 70.

[Edax]

May I ask what mmos? I've played almost everyone out for the past 10+ years and most of the ones I played gave you the best gear in game from doing the hardest content in said game. The few that didn't give you the best gear from raiding, had horizontal progression and you could get gear on par from crafting, but it was super hard to craft it. And still even in those games I believe the hardest world bosses dropped better items.




That's the problem with super casual/vertical progression games and honestly, even if Yoshi were to try and change that people would just complain that they don't have enough time. Or that it's too hard and "not fair" that people that can dedicate time can complete it or some other non sense.

It's best just to play this game in small bursts honestly until the general playerbase gets over it and realize that people that work harder will have better items.

It wasn't other MMOs, but other games. Maybe Eve Online is the only MMO that I've played where it didn't offer the best rewards from the hard content? That game has had it's PVE content totally subverted by the PVP players.

They say it's best to play in small bursts, but since I don't want to lose my house in Shirogane to auto-demolition so I make sure to garden in both my house and my FC's house. The result is that I play everyday, but only a little bit. Cycle the retainers, water the crops, and do the Namazu quests before heading back to my house to afk to cycle the retainers a few more times. If game stops being a part of my routine and I often forget about it for months so I know I'll lose my precious house if I do that.