We Really Need To Talk About The State And Path Of FFXIV

[HyperiusUltima]

Someone mentioned to me that I can "pay to skip the AAR quests"...you've got to be kidding me. Why would I pay money to buy the game...buy a subscription...then pay MORE money just so I can actually progress and not beat my head against a wall. If anything THIS is the problem with player retention.

Again, they're working on that. More than likely they'll streamline it a lot better once they release Shadowbringers, but for right now, just stick along for the ride.

[Callibus]

Again, they're working on that. More than likely they'll streamline it a lot better once they release Shadowbringers, but for right now, just stick along for the ride.

Okay so how come if I pay money I can bypass it? Seems like the temporary fix is letting people bypass it without paying, right?

[HyperiusUltima]

Okay so how come if I pay money I can bypass it? Seems like the temporary fix is letting people bypass it without paying, right?

No. People who choose to use the Level Potion to skip the Story and get caught up with their friends choose to do so. It's an avenue for commerce they've had since the release of Stormblood and it's actually a good marketing choice since it's not forced. The latter choice is working through the Story and experiencing it(which, honestly, is a very good way to go through FFXIV considering they put a lot of thought into the Story compared to most other MMOs) while trying to catch up. It takes a while because of the current strait of 2.1 - 2.55, which when you gain access to The Steps of Faith is the last portion before you get to go to Heavensward(which, Heavensward's Story is GREAT. I can understand why people want to skip considering Shadowbringers is right around the corner, but going through it all to get there is worth the experience).

[Melichoir]

Okay so how come if I pay money I can bypass it? Seems like the temporary fix is letting people bypass it without paying, right?

There was another thread discussing the ups and downs of the MSQ. My thoughts are you can skip MSQ to catch up via a jump potion, but they dont want that to be the norm. MSQ is pretty central to the FFXIV experience IMO, and if they changed the game so that the only thing keeping you out of content is your level (and not MSQ) itll become like wow pretty quickly. But if you really want to skip MSQ, they give you that option, just not for free so it doesnt become the standard choice.

Unfortunately, 2.1 to 2.55 feels pretty long based on how its set up. That section of the MSQ is the one most people complain about, and it does need some streamlining.

[linay]

You're confusing posters, I'm guessing. I never mentioned verisimilitude, of any quantity or change therein. I replied only to your question of the state of classes being "broken", describing why one might find their shared state (or, parity) across leveling unnecessarily (and seemingly, to a degree, intentionally, given that it was only recently and actively changed to be this bad) haphazard.

No, I knew you're a different person. I just thought you knew I was asking in the context of the quotation.

That said, speaking more generally, I never felt any of the job wasn't able to perform at any stage of the leveling process or when synced down. So even with the progression difference, I would still disagree with calling them broken before endgame even generally speaking. That word, broken, deserves something worse than what we have currently with the jobs in my opinion.

[SaberMaxwell]

No, I knew you're a different person. I just thought you knew I was asking in the context of the quotation.

That said, speaking more generally, I never felt any of the job wasn't able to perform at any stage of the leveling process or when synced down. So even with the progression difference, I would still disagree with calling them broken before endgame even generally speaking. That word, broken, deserves something worse than what we have currently with the jobs in my opinion.

Machinist has literally no control over its burst phase until Lv64 abouts (Cooldown), and no good control of it until Lv70 (Flamethrower). Dark Knight is missing The Blackest Night until lv70, and most of its defensive kit is balanced around it having a 15 second recast 20% HP shield.

You don't feel the imbalances of these jobs sub-cap because the situation is so rare that you're taxing the sub-cap kit to its limits. But imbalances definitely exist sub-cap, and some jobs play completely differently and often have extreme variance in levels of efficiency. This is generally fine though, the dev team has made it clear they balance for level cap, and level cap content is what matters the most because of endgame.

[linay]

Machinist has literally no control over its burst phase until Lv64 abouts (Cooldown), and no good control of it until Lv70 (Flamethrower). Dark Knight is missing The Blackest Night until lv70, and most of its defensive kit is balanced around it having a 15 second recast 20% HP shield.

You don't feel the imbalances of these jobs sub-cap because the situation is so rare that you're taxing the sub-cap kit to its limits. But imbalances definitely exist sub-cap, and some jobs play completely differently and often have extreme variance in levels of efficiency. This is generally fine though, the dev team has made it clear they balance for level cap, and level cap content is what matters the most because of endgame.

All that really matters is that the jobs can complete the duties within their level range, regardless of the level. Whether they play differently at various levels (which would be obvious for progression to exist) or with less balance or efficiency is irrelevant outside of being able to complete those duties. It's also part of growth. When the jobs haven't fully "matured," it is expected that they would not be at their best. That doesn't make the jobs broken before they're at their best.

[Physic]

All that really matters is that the jobs can complete the duties within their level range, regardless of the level. Whether they play differently at various levels (which would be obvious for progression to exist) or with less balance or efficiency is irrelevant outside of being able to complete those duties. It's also part of growth. When the jobs haven't fully "matured," it is expected that they would not be at their best. That doesn't make the jobs broken before they're at their best.

their point isnt that content is undoable, but rather that they feel clunky/bad/not balanced Before high level. Basically in general, they rework the jobs each expansion to make them about one playstyle at 70, then they remove pieces as they become lower level. So while playing at 50 used to feel like a complete experience, now, you are missing obvious synergies, and it varies with each class.

There was another thread discussing the ups and downs of the MSQ. My thoughts are you can skip MSQ to catch up via a jump potion, but they dont want that to be the norm. MSQ is pretty central to the FFXIV experience IMO, and if they changed the game so that the only thing keeping you out of content is your level (and not MSQ) itll become like wow pretty quickly. But if you really want to skip MSQ, they give you that option, just not for free so it doesnt become the standard choice.

Unfortunately, 2.1 to 2.55 feels pretty long based on how its set up. That section of the MSQ is the one most people complain about, and it does need some streamlining.

its weird to me that you think the only difference between WoW and ffxiv is the content lock of MSQ.
You feel like msq is what the game is primarily about, and that its important for each player to go through it the same way, i disagree. Msq is a book, or a movie, not a game. A game requires that all players follow similar rules, such that its fair, but a book/movie is different. Some people love the movie part of ffxiv, some dont.

Put yourself in someone elses shoes here. Imagine you don't need/like/care about story. Now imagine someone is making you watch 110 hours of something or fast foward through it for 50 hours in order to access the actual game portion. or you can pay 25 dollars.



If the story was actually integral to how the game is played, and an integrated part of the experience, like a pen and paper rpg, i would agree with you, but its simply not. Its a seperate thing which has no effect on your play if other people do it.

[linay]

their point isnt that content is undoable, but rather that they feel clunky/bad/not balanced Before high level. Basically in general, they rework the jobs each expansion to make them about one playstyle at 70, then they remove pieces as they become lower level. So while playing at 50 used to feel like a complete experience, now, you are missing obvious synergies, and it varies with each class.

Yes, that's part of growth. In the past, level 50 was the complete experience. It's not now, and the job progression reflects that. You can call it bad if you don't like how a level 50 plays now, but it's not broken if it can still do level 50 content.

[disturbedcobra]

You feel like msq is what the game is primarily about, and that its important for each player to go through it the same way, i disagree. Msq is a book, or a movie, not a game. A game requires that all players follow similar rules, such that its fair, but a book/movie is different. Some people love the movie part of ffxiv, some dont.

Put yourself in someone elses shoes here. Imagine you don't need/like/care about story. Now imagine someone is making you watch 110 hours of something or fast foward through it for 50 hours in order to access the actual game portion. or you can pay 25 dollars.



If the story was actually integral to how the game is played, and an integrated part of the experience, like a pen and paper rpg, i would agree with you, but its simply not. Its a seperate thing which has no effect on your play if other people do it.

We are playing an MMORPG Like most RPGs, the story implementation is just as big to the game as the gameplay itself. Yes, both experiences are separate but that doesn't make one more important then the other. They are both equally as important for the success of the game as a whole. Plus many great developers put their heart and soul in crafting great plots and characters for us to experience, not to be thrown to the wayside. Kazutoyo Maehiro being the main scenario writer has done an amazing job in crafting various likable characters as well as amazing plot. Then there is the world & lore of the entire game done by Koji Fox. Without all that the game would be rather bland. Think CODIV now that they removed the campaign mode.