We Really Need To Talk About The State And Path Of FFXIV

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Mythic+

The issue becomes they won't even attempt difficult content outside of raids, let alone dungeons. If they actually did Mythic+ styled content, I would be more open to the idea of high end raid gear being available from it, but they seem utterly afraid to make anything too difficult outside Ultimate. With that said, you have to remember WoW has a substantially different gear progression system—one heavily dependent on RNG to maintain its relevancy. Say they did end Mythic+ styled dungeons but they will weren't anywhere close to Guardian or Kefka's difficulty. Well, what reason do raiders have to touch the aforementioned two when Hell's Lid EX offers a faster alternative?

[Kallera]

The definition of "difficulty" within this this game is too narrow. Crowd control moves and status effects other than DoTs have been largely devalued in the face of trash that dies quickly and bosses that are immune. Healers bounce the party back from any sort of non lethal damage, causing the devs to rely more and more on Vuln up and instant kill attacks to cause anything substantial. And Hard enrages/limit break gain nerfs after a certain amount of time also cause problems, with players refusing to deviate from the first strat they see on Youtube because dps is behind the most discouraging deaths:the ones at 1%.


I agree that this game needs a shake up in almost every way imaginable and soon.

[Zojha]

I wouldn't point at Rath though cause it doesn't have any sort of tank aggro or heavy mechanics you need to worry about other than dodge and stack.

Egh. You can use literally any mechanic that doesn't amount to:"People take damage no matter what they do."

The issue with healer reliance is caused by unavoidable damage. It's "game over" when the healer dies because no matter how well you play, you're going to take more damage than you can sustain. The more such damage is going out, the faster people will inevitably die and thus, the more reliant a group becomes on the healer. On the flip side, that also means the healer role is becoming more and more stressful, because people rely more and more on them being competent.

Rathalos pretty much neuters healers with the death limit and healing debuff, but in turn makes most of his damage avoidable. That takes responsibility off the healer and allows non-healer comps to beat it, but it also makes healers feel relatively pointless. So it's not like you cannot take some burden off the healer for tough 4-man content - it's just that it can only really be done by marginalizing them. And that might be controversial.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Then you have not been into Eureka obviously. The whole thing is RNG. RNG to get crystals, RNG to get light, RNG for the stupid NM's to spawn half the time it feels like, and a significant time investment. To keep the chains going in Pagos you also require a significant DPS output otherwise you lose the chain and have to start over again. As to what I what I would do with an equivalent weapon who cares? It should literally not matter at all if there is an alternative to raid tier if it also requires an equal investment in time.

The only thing I hear from you is "Waaah if a non-raider gets a reward equal to me my precious e-peen is going to shrivel up and fall off".

Conversely, all I hear from you is "I want the same ilvl as raiders because I deserve it! Even if the content I prefer is brain dead easy and requires no more than spamming buttons on target dummies that proc!"

Just because you put similar or more time into something, does not make them equal tasks. By that logic, spamming dungeons should also reward i370 gear.

[Ilan]

Gordias/Midas wasn't just for "raiders only", it was for hardcore raiders only. We had Coil before that, which was definitely not as difficult as Gordias/Midas, yet was still decently challenging.
Having a difficulty like Savage Second Coil would've been a good option for the hardcore raiders, but they complained about the lack of rewards from that version of Savage.


There are numerous definitions on the words "casual" and "hardcore", yours simply doesn't line up with Magic-Mal's definition of it.


The raid-or-die (or perhaps in this case, raid-or-wait) mentality is what cripples the gear situation in XIV. Players are expected to raid to get the very best gear, or wait 3.5-4 months for the upgrade tokens from the Alliance raid.

You do know that it's possible to have challenging non-raid content that can reward raid-level gear, right? Just look at the Mythic+ dungeon system in WoW. In that system, the dungeon's difficulty scales with the level of the Keystone that's used to start the dungeon.

For example: A level 3 Keystone will increase the health and damage of all the trash mobs/bosses by 21%. Keystones also gain an affix at Level 4, 7 and 10, at a total of 3 affixes on a Level 10 Keystone. These affixes are dungeon-wide effects, like Raging (mobs enrage at 30% health, dealing 100% more damaging until they're killed) or Bolstering (mobs buff nearby enemies, increasing health/damage), among other options.

Finishing the dungeon in time upgrades the keystone by 1, 2 or 3 levels, depending on how fast the group is. Loot iLvl is based on the level of the Keystone. There's also a Mythic chest that contains a keystone + a guaranteed piece of gear with its iLvl based on the highest Mythic+ cleared during the previous week.

So we where hardcore raiders because we did that stuff. Yeah thats not true, our group was just a bunch of not even good players who had some fun. But whatever.

Why does it cripple anything? Why do you want the best possible gear if you don't do anything where you would need it? Just to feel good? Or to show others how good they are?
Could be nice to have something like the mythic system but you would still have the same complains because you would've to step up their game too and thats what a lot of people are just not willing to do. They just want the best gear for doing nothing whats challenging, maybe not all of them but a lot.

Lets face it, there never will be real challenging content outside of savage, ultimate and maybe some ex primals in this game because SE continues with their way to make everything easier or they just fail to create something challenging, i'll pick pagos as example for that.

[Lorgana]

Lol tfw casuals complain that they don't get raid equivalent gear when they aren't willing to do raiding. Gtfo here with that socialist thinking, this is a capitalist game ;3

[Mahrze]

The Open World:
---TL;DR: HW and SB maps are filled with nothing. No exploration. No incentive. No danger.

But thinking the opposite is needed is ludicrous though, because of the second 'no'. Incentive. Ruby sea's incentive is HoH and the Kojin. Fringes' incentive is the Ananta, etc. No matter how 'good' the carrot is, its only there for so long. ARR maps, even with all the nuance were mostly empty because people stay in cities or housing wards, unless you want those to be lost in favor of 'better' over-world maps.

Flying:
---TL;DR: Can I just say that imo, flying ruined everything that FFXIV was? I had to make a section just for flight.. it has ruined so many things now that I don't think I'll ever get the feelings back unless it's removed.

No, it didn't ruin it, it made obvious how barren most maps are. I know I fight an uphill battle with nostalgia and sense of wonder but maps, unless they have some sort of 'natural progression' or 'are very much alive' are only interesting after so long. Maps can be interesting with flight, but SE still has no idea on how that one works.

Glamours and Customization:
---TLDR: We get less and less, more restrictions, and more boring.

But this is mostly because they can only do so much with the glamour system they have, but expecting more at this point is a bit far-fetched since the gear is the carrot, they've already perpetuated this mentality. "Do this to get this", its how every game works. And the circle jerk with the devs is they mostly play female characters so that's why most gear is usually favoring female characters.

Dungeons, Trials, and Raids:
---TL;DR: SE, you cut corners and I see it but you don't give us anything in return. You're just giving us less and less here.

Problem hear is that 'intricate' dungeons will just have 'the path of least resistance' as 'the right path/way' and every other option as 'bad' not only by design, but by player consensus. Even when 'all roads lead to rome' everyone wants the shortest one.

Gear Rewards, Progression, and Raiders:
---TL;DR: This might spark negativity but here's my opinion.. Raiders and raids are restricting the game and causing all gear progression to go stale.

Throwing raiders into the fray is a hit/miss issue. Because reality is, the devs decided to use the raider rewards as the highest worth measure. If the devs decided to keep this value, then its all the more reason to think 'its the best' (even though sub-stats can prove otherwise as a 'bis' and relic has been bis at expansion end due to stat customization) but even those items are not needed for most of content, plenty of raiders clear stuff under the ilvl cap and farm it. Its more of a 'medal in the form of gear' than an actual reward.

Overall I think we're being to fatalistic with what the game does since its been doing the same thing since 2.0. Its simply more people are "woke' to the thought. But adding nuance to maps, expanding gear and other tid-bits would only mean: "this isn't enough, SE because <reasons>".

They themselves have an uphill battle with overly high expectations that they also seem to foment. Specially when the game has 30 categories of different types of content that needs investment or qol treatment and they seem to only be able to work on 1 thing every 3 months.

[MelodyCrystel]

Hm, usually I avoid the forum since I'm no fan of some extremists here, but well... I try to use words which aren't too impolite, so let's see if still anybody wants to behead me for having an opinion that doesn't match their ideals.

About the author's critique considering the Open World:

In theory, having 'dead areas' is not necessarily a bad thing. At least I can imagine our Roleplayers – who I personally find creepy and would never want to join – will appreciate such spots. But apart from having maybe some logical reasons for having zones that are practically lifeless, there is indeed a bitter taste to wander around from Quest A to Z without seeing anything interesting. Most of the time, there are no NPCs who stand around plus interact with each other – and the total lack of 'normal animals' is annoying me since HW, because I love some of these passive creatures in ARR a lot.

(If SE gave us an Antelope or Sheep as mount, they would definitely make me happy. You guys can wish for whatever you want, but only these two and that monster-type which resembles the bird-of-paradise are on my personal list.)

About Flying:

As much as I heard, many players wished for having the ability to fly. It's of course no must to like the result, yet I find it a bit harsh to depict this feature as a game-ruining-aspect. For example: Impatient people who want to kill a Hunt will not wait for others – whether or not the selfish persons can fly. Or: Somebody who simply doesn't care for the landscape will on his/her second visit ignore everything the map offers. I am somebody who can wait hours for something and who loves pretty areas, so partly I understand the complaint, yet I presume Flying won't vanish from the game plus return in the next Expansion.

About Dungeons:

The reason why these things aren't anymore detailed in consideration of their map is simple: We players. We pulled as many monsters as possible and rushed each visit just in order to save a handful of seconds/minutes. With us being so ignorant, it's just natural SE did slowly give in as well as created only linear dungeons without any hidden corners. Before now anybody complains, he/she wouldn't be a rusher, I can assure you, that I am also no fan of hectic, yet I know SE looks at what the majority of us does, whereby their decision was made to skip anything labyrinth-like.

About Trials:

While I found the trials of HW different, I agree that in SB, there is always the same schema to recognize once one enters a new content. Surely the mechanics differ, but the basic-plan looks always identical and can be predicted. I wonder, when I was for the last time truly dazzled by a Trial, because admittedly I do not 100% remember anymore. Maybe Sophia or Zurvan, but I'm not sure...

About Raids:

Hmhm, the stuff for 8 people really looks like SE wants us to focus on our main-purpose, though I do not like the way how Alexander made us hit some Minibosses just for having access to the final exemplar. What I would prefer would be a mix of tiny dungeons and clean boss-fights, so that we don't get monotone things to do. Wasn't Coil somehow like that? Anyways, the critique about Omega's Trials is kind of a double-edged sword. Okay, they are not the most creative stuff, but at least one can notice differences between them. While I was doing Sigmascape every week once it was new, the visits didn't bore me as long as at least two of them remained considering weekly loot.

About Raiders:

Ah yes, my 'favorite' topic when it comes to the game itself... I have seen Raiders. Many of them. Pro-Raiders including. Oh yeah, a handful of Raiders is in my friend-list, even. But as much as I like to convince myself of the good nature everybody of us should wear in their hearts, I must unfortunately say I am in general no admirer of Raiders. As one who did the Mentor-challenge and obtained the Astrope, perhaps I shouldn't talk like that, but I can't change my nature: I do not like the way how SB looks more and more as if SE cares only for the minority of their players; the ones who truly match the 'insult' which the word Raider can become. I can't whitewash that – it is so obvious to me that one must be blind in order to not see it. If I hurt somebody with my words, I am really sorry, yet I notice since 4.0 how everything looks like it was content mostly made for the kind of Raiders who childishly complain once they do not get the biggest piece of a cake.

The selfishness which the bad side of that coin demonstrates frustrates me even more, because the contrariness in their opinions is so absurd that it turns my stomach upside-down. They say “You do not need best gear just for doing standard content.”, yet complain “Man, your Tanking/Healing/DPSing is too weak! This run will take ages!” --- anybody must tell me, how to deal with that inconsistency, since – even when these words aren't directed towards me – I don't want to turn my chat off as long as an instance lasts. Especially, since some of us aren't god-sent creatures who don't need good gear to compensate their skill-lack. Even while I am in the middle-field, so that it shouldn't mean anything to me, I find it awful how the weak players are kicked around for – in the end – unimportant reasons.

And holy cow, what do I hear since good old Anima about the negative-minded Raiders and their Relic-opinion... Does it really matter, what kind of gear stranger XYZ wears? Is it a personal mission to prevent a non-Pro-Raider from having good stuff to hit hard? And why must a relic-weapon have these days worthless stats, just because some Raiders thought, that the Zodiac-/Anima-weapons weren't something they'd like to try themselves? Nobody blocked this content for them or something like that, so I feel like I missed something that suddenly Relic-weapons look like toys, while a Raider-friend of mine did back then ALL Animas in HW with noticeable pride.
(And a Raider from another server became a friend of mine just because the two of us met each other due to eagerly working in HW for our Astrope. So, if anybody says Raiders have time for nothing else but their 'job', then it is definitely from my point of view a lie, because both friends wear always Savage-equipment and aren't 24 hours per day online.)

Sopp, feel free to behead me if you like to, although you shouldn't hope for a reaction coming from me. It's not very likely that I waste my time with discussions in this forum, since I – who got called 'salty' and whatever in Eureka – wouldn't be afraid of risking a ban here. Plus, with being known for acting insensitive, I definitely should try to respect the opinions others have and stop hurting their feelings willingly.

[RiyahArp]

The problem with hard content is that it's only hard due to one-shots.

HoH hard content: everything oneshots you.
Rath ex-everything oneshots you, and you have a 3 respawn limit since he has no tight enrage (seriously, when you are 362 and need to meld vit AND use food just to survive a mistake, something is up)
Savage- screw up and it oneshots you, and you have enrage to act as a defacto life system, since raise sickness and downtime due to dps is the greatest dps loss.
hard 24 man bosses-have an attack that oneshots you (hashmal's rush, math boss on DPS)

You can't really adapt this to casual content. Bout the only way they did was to make the oneshotting very slow (titan gaols) or just make it very occasional (titan landslides.) Ultros's original mechanic, where you wiped if all 4 imps didnt hit their imp punch correctly, shows what happens if you try.

[Magic-Mal]

Well, what reason do raiders have to touch the aforementioned two when Hell's Lid EX offers a faster alternative?

BiS stats most likely. "Raid level gear" from content that isn't a raid already exists in the form of tome gear that everyone, even the worst players, can get. Fact is though that raid gear doesn't always have the best stats on it. Tome gear has the BiS stats all the time. Too often we end up with both raid and tome gear having the same 2 stats on it with the priority stat switched maybe. Or the tome gear being sucky but the raid gear being sucky too. It's extra boring. We can already get raid gear without raiding and could have for 6 years now so I don't know what the fuss is.

I would love to have options to get more gear pieces with different stat match-ups. If I wanna have 4,000 skill speed, I should have the opportunity to do it while still being i370. But we don't have that choice..