We Really Need To Talk About The State And Path Of FFXIV

[AmeliaVerves]

Am I the only one that is wondering how a 3k Sks MCH is meant to manage their TP?! Sounds rather impossible to me.

[KaivaC]

In regards to the state of FFXIV, OP...fair enough, the game does have a lot of flaws that need to be addressed. I'd say I agree that the game gets stale, especially towards the last month before the next expansion when folks start resubbing again. For such an amazing world, the game just feels empty outside of MSQ. With the introduction of the Doman Reconstruction, I hope they start improving on this side story. No more reliable on FATEs, more emphasis on actual things to do within the game world that is already established.

That being said, coming from another product that SQEX is involved with, I'd have to say that FFXIV is still doing alright. I come from the FFBE area, and trust me, the devs here in FFXIV are going nowhere near the level of predatory, downright insulting practices that Gumi (the Global producers for FFBE), have sunken to lately. The community currently has a saying right now: "Raise your Gungnirs (Kain's weapon)".

Gumi: Oh, so the Global community is mad and is agreeing to vote with their wallets. How do we fix this?

*introduces meta-defining characters and bring in upgrades that weren't supposed to be available for 9 months*

Gumi: Let's see you vote with your wallets now.

tldr: While FFXIV is certainly not fine right now, it could be much worse. It could be P2W.

[Magic-Mal]

It absolutely did affect VIT; VIT is what determines your total HP value. A reduction of your HP by 15% is because your VIT was reduced by 15%. It was -15% to all of your main stats (VIT/STR/DEX/INT/MND/PIE). Your MP went down because Piety was considered a main attribute back then, and a 15% reduction in your MP was caused by your Piety stat being reduced by 15%. Piety determined MP just like VIT determined HP.

The Patch 4.0 Notes confirm this:

VIT is a main attribute; ergo, it was affected by HW Weakness/Brink of Death.

Maybe I'm just too tired, it's been a long day. I guess I misremembered that bit. But it's confusing because what I was referring to with VIT/HP actually IS a thing and the descriptions can be vague/not clear.

With this debuff it says my HP, which is VIT as VIT is HP, is reduced. Yet my VIT isn't actually reduced at all. It simply reduced from whatever number my max HP was which is made from my VIT:


Although I can't remember what the description for Weakness actually was back then. I can't remember if it went into detail saying STR/DEX/etc and HP was reduced or if it actually mentioned attributes in-game. I don't know.. no pics.

Am I the only one that is wondering how a 3k Sks MCH is meant to manage their TP?! Sounds rather impossible to me.

Invigorate, Tactician, and faith

[Reynhart]

Pre-melds, I was not clearing the dummy. After suggested melds, I was clearing the dummy relatively easily.

Just a reminder on what started this exchange :

If the stats “didn’t matter”, why is it that tank BiS for the last two tiers has chosen pentamelded crafted accessories over the Savage or Tomestone accessories?

As a tank who doesn't have millions to spend on Pentalmelded acc, I never had any trouble clearing the dummies as long as I had the ilvl to enter the corresponding content. I don't say that you should keep your materia slots empty or anything (Which, by the way, was the situation I used on my "5% DPS on DRG" example). So again, unless you tackle Savage with a competitive mindset (Which is fine, but hardly shared by a lot of the playerbase) using Tome/Raid acc as a tank is nowhere near "gimping" yourself.

[KaivaC]

With the exception of Warrior, tanks don't have as huge of a rotation on dummies that Dps worry about, plus the differing hp pools that change based on what job you're going in on. You don't really need to pentameld, though I do believe that in the content where it would matter, players do need to meld. Stats matter in the context at least, and the game is currently giving players so many ways to get said materia

[AmeliaVerves]

Invigorate, Tactician, and faith

Over 7min fights or throughout a whole dungeon that also requires TP heavy AOEs? Best of luck.


I mean, obviously the 3k you talked about were an exaggeration but still. It is not even hindering your performance but basically unplayable. I just don't see why anyone would want to go that route just for the sake of proofing ... well, I don't even get what you would want to proof at this point. Not going with a BiS because you don't care is fine and trying other things with mildly more sks/sps because you find it more fun and engaging is cool, but to this extent it's just ridiculous.
We have more than enough ways to get gear and work out different sets, since we also got 360 green gear which is pretty neat. I use it for some of my jobs I didn't bother to get the BiS for and it allows me to mix up things and get just fine working sets on >360.

[WhyAmIHere]

Maybe I'm just too tired, it's been a long day. I guess I misremembered that bit. But it's confusing because what I was referring to with VIT/HP actually IS a thing and the descriptions can be vague/not clear.

With this debuff it says my HP, which is VIT as VIT is HP, is reduced. Yet my VIT isn't actually reduced at all. It simply reduced from whatever number my max HP was which is made from my VIT:


Although I can't remember what the description for Weakness actually was back then. I can't remember if it went into detail saying STR/DEX/etc and HP was reduced or if it actually mentioned attributes in-game. I don't know.. no pics.

Imagine if they had just made BoD/Weakness give you a flat -30%/-15% (respectively, and yes they are backwards) damage reduction for the duration. Then they wouldn't have had to deal with the tank VIT/STR debacle and give rise to 4.0 tanks starting out using 270 STR accessories.

But that'd imply SE actually come up with an idea that wasn't half-baked and well thought out.

[Deceptus]

But that'd imply SE actually come up with an idea that wasn't half-baked and well thought out.

Sadly, IMHO, that's the FFXIV development team in a nutshell. Find the most convoluted solution to a problem that doesn't exist or is easily fixable.

Tenacity pretty much is useless for the most part, save for a select few scenarios that really wouldn't be applicable to the playerbase as a whole. Tanks can put on DPS jewels i.e STR, DH, and Crit. As my prior post said, WARs should generally meld for Crit, PLDs should go for DH, and DRK lean towards Crit melds. Unless your talking about other materia, which would be useless for physical based jobs save for a couple of materia.

Someone on reddit did the math IIRC and Tenacity scales worse than Parry did. And Parry was useless so.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...talk_tenacity/

[HyoMinPark]

Maybe I'm just too tired, it's been a long day. I guess I misremembered that bit. But it's confusing because what I was referring to with VIT/HP actually IS a thing and the descriptions can be vague/not clear.

With this debuff it says my HP, which is VIT as VIT is HP, is reduced. Yet my VIT isn't actually reduced at all. It simply reduced from whatever number my max HP was which is made from my VIT:

You're comparing HP Penalty with old Weakness/Brink. They aren't the same status effect, and old Weakness/Brink did not function in the same way. With Weakness/Brink, your HP was slashed because your VIT was slashed, which is what I said. Perhaps it wasn't clear because I was tired, but I'll reiterate. Again.

If you want to get technical, HP is a base attribute and VIT is a main attribute. But old Weakness/Brink slashed main attributes. Hence why your HP went down - because your VIT had gone down at the same time. Same with MP and Piety. The penalty wasn't explicit to HP/MP; it was specific to your main attributes.

There's even a Reddit post from ARR talking about how Weakness reduced an individual's VIT:

This gear gives me 340 VIT / 3786 HP. With single weakness, that changes to 287 VIT / 3017 HP. . . .

. . . .Edit: Edited to add stats for when the WHM is out of PT. Solo Stats: 3655 HP / 331 VIT Single Weakness: 2930 HP / 281 VIT Double Weakness: 2205 HP / 231 VIT

Ok, I've figured out what's wrong. You're losing 15% of VIT which results in more than a 15% loss of HP. The problem is that your base VIT gives you less HP per VIT than what gear gives you. Base HP per VIT is closer to 10 (or approximately 8 if I unequip my soul crystal and become CNJ instead of WHM). So the description is wrong as I thought, but it would be correct if HP were changed to VIT in the description.

Although I can't remember what the description for Weakness actually was back then. I can't remember if it went into detail saying STR/DEX/etc and HP was reduced or if it actually mentioned attributes in-game. I don't know.. no pics.

I literally gave it to you - "All main attributes are reduced by 15%/30%", for Weakness/Brink of Death, respectfully. That included VIT/STR/DEX/INT/MND/PIE back in HW because those were your main attributes back then. Now it explicitly only says "Reduces Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, and Mind by 15%/30%", excluding VIT (which is still considered a main attribute) and Piety is no longer considered a main attribute as of 4.0 so it is unaffected, and not listed with the others.

All that information is in the Patch 4.0 Notes that I linked in my previous post. You can also use the Wayback Machine to archive the FFXIV GamerEscape page on the status effect back to any time before SB dropped and see a similar description.

Basic research goes a long way.

As a tank who doesn't have millions to spend on Pentalmelded acc, I never had any trouble clearing the dummies as long as I had the ilvl to enter the corresponding content. I don't say that you should keep your materia slots empty or anything (Which, by the way, was the situation I used on my "5% DPS on DRG" example). So again, unless you tackle Savage with a competitive mindset (Which is fine, but hardly shared by a lot of the playerbase) using Tome/Raid acc as a tank is nowhere near "gimping" yourself.

But there is a mathematical difference. That's what you're failing to realize. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not there.

The "gimping yourself" comment was made by you well after the comment you quoted from me, along with how people supposedly don't care about a 5% damage loss (DRG-less BRDs and MCHs would like a word with you about that). But raiders do, and we're discussing raiders; not non-raiders. Context matters, whether you want it to or not.

[Magic-Mal]

Imagine if they had just made BoD/Weakness give you a flat -30%/-15% (respectively, and yes they are backwards) damage reduction for the duration. Then they wouldn't have had to deal with the tank VIT/STR debacle and give rise to 4.0 tanks starting out using 270 STR accessories.

You mean the Damage Down debuff we've always had throughout the entire game but was never used as the Weakness debuff for whatever reason?