Crowd-sourcing and testing Eureka Pagos NM spawn condition hypotheses

[MontyChamberlain]

After some deliberation, I decided it would be better to enlist the help of multiple people, if only to brainstorm and test NM spawn conditions. I'm of the mentality that players should do everything they can to try to make the experience better for the community, and fine-tuning our understanding of NM spawn conditions is key to doing so. In the event that NM spawns are not due to pure RNG, we need to figure out how best to spawn NMs, since the most commonly shared complaint is that NMs are almost 1/3rd as frequent in Pagos than in Anemos.

As a playerbase, we have observed the spawns of all 17 data-mined NMs in Pagos. The problem is the inconsistency/infrequency with which they spawn.

Here are a few situations that are troubling to understand at first:

1. Reports on Reddit tell of Louhi spawning with only 2 people left in the instance.
2. A player commented that it took 400 Ameretat (the presumed mob) kills to even spawn Copycat Cassie.
3. I solo-killed about 60 or so Val Snippers (and another group killed another 50-60) before King Arthro was even able to spawn in the next Fog. By then, I was the only one left in the instance and unable to kill him myself.
4. In an instance with only 4 people left and about 50-60 minutes left on my timer without having seen Hakutaku or Glavoid spawn when I joined, both these NMs spawned (Glavoid spawned just after Hakutaku was defeated) when no one was actively killing Blubber Eyes or Val Worms.

Now, here are some theories we already have concerning Pagos:

1. Pagos is subject to instance locking and unlocking, where, after an amount of time, the instance you are in will be locked to players, and after another amount of time, unlocked.
2. In Anemos, players can contribute to NM spawning in its downtime window (i.e., you can still contribute to the next NM spawn even if it was already killed recently). It is assumed to be the same in Pagos.

Here are some questions we need to base hypotheses on and test:

1. Do NM spawn requirements scale based on the number of people participating in hitting the NM mob?
2. Are the spawn requirements in Pagos drastically different from in Anemos?
3. Do chains give a bonus to the NM spawn?
4. Are mutation/adaptation mobs involved in any way in the spawning of NMs?
5. Are the bunny FATEs, "Down The Rabbit Hole" and "Curious and Curiouser" involved in any way in the spawning of NMs?

The most important question of this thread is this: how can players spawn Pagos NMs with the same frequency as in Anemos? To this end, we need to confirm and eliminate any various hypotheses/theories involving NM spawning as a community.

[Mofafafa]

From my personal experience from today, I went to join a party and tries to spawn Cassie,

1) 3 Parties ( killing same morbol )
2) Sharing Chains, we had 3 ~ 4 Chain (30 kills)
3) Cassie Spawned
4) Instance was 130+ people

I assumed Chaining do plays a role

iirc, Yoshida too said that he will tries to adjust the AFK leecher from the base in which it might or might not scale with existing instance players count

[RareItems]

NM's HP and Strength is based on the number of ppl on the instance OR number of players participating on the Fate. My party was the last 8 players on the instance farming lvl 37 dragons (with me as a lvl 35 trying to farm lights, the rest lvl 32-33). Eventually Hadhayosh pops, and the group wanted to try him out. The RDM said she/he was willing to use return and raise us if we wiped. So I switched to tank and tanked him while the rest dpsed and saved the LB for the last 8%.

He was much easier and we were able to kill him easily with just us. I was on attack element the whole time and barely took any damage.

A few days before when in a full instance, a different group popped Hadhayosh, a lvl 35 warrior was tanking him and he caused a alliance wipe, dots eventually killed him but we didn't get exp since he deaggroed for a second before dying to dots lol. xD.

[Tsumdere]

My group was chaining the crabs for King Arthro and went through 6-7 chains and he still did not pop when the next Fog came. This was in a new instance and several other NMs got cycled through including Louhi.

[MontyChamberlain]

I assumed Chaining do plays a role

iirc, Yoshida too said that he will tries to adjust the AFK leecher from the base in which it might or might not scale with existing instance players count

While we can't rule anything out, chaining may not be a possibility - otherwise, it would be impossible for high-level players to spawn a low-level NM like Snow Queen by themselves.

As for the AFK-from-base problem, fixing it in the manner you implied would only hurt everyone, unfortunately. People will AFK regardless of circumstance, and if they did adjust NM spawns to scale based on number of people participating in spawning, we would need a lot of data, data which we are unable to get unless we undergo a massive change in player mentality.

NM's HP and Strength is based on the number of ppl on the instance OR number of players participating on the Fate.

The HP scaling is true, and there is someone on the Eurekan Explorer's Discord keeping track of the various HP amounts of each NM in relation to the number of players in the instance. However, I do not agree with the Strength being scaled. Consider that NMs both hit and feel like sponges when an instance has a lot of players but only few players are participating (e.g., the Sabotender Corrido problem in Anemos).

A player counts toward a NM's HP scaling if they are at the eligible level. This is a likely explanation for why the level 21 bunny takes so long compared to the level 31 bunny FATE with the same amount of people.

My group was chaining the crabs for King Arthro and went through 6-7 chains and he still did not pop when the next Fog came. This was in a new instance and several other NMs got cycled through including Louhi.

This is unfortunately my situation whenever I try to spawn him. As an aside (don't take this as anything but a personal anecdote/complaint), he always tends to spawn when I don't try to spawn him myself.

[madoc]

he always tends to spawn when I don't try to spawn him myself.

Just out of curiosity I've checked your Lodestone to confirm a hunch and voilà: your guardian deity is Althyk, Umbral Earth and weak to Water in Eureka. Maybe spawners blessed by Byregot/Rhalgr or Thaliak/Nymeia would fare better?

[Tsumdere]

Just out of curiosity I've checked your Lodestone to confirm a hunch and voilà: your guardian deity is Althyk, Umbral Earth and weak to Water in Eureka. Maybe spawners blessed by Byregot/Rhalgr or Thaliak/Nymeia would fare better?

Unfortunately, my main's guardian diety is Thaliak and I too have been having extreme trouble spawning King Arthro. Cool theory but probably completely false.

[MontyChamberlain]

Just out of curiosity I've checked your Lodestone to confirm a hunch and voilà: your guardian deity is Althyk, Umbral Earth and weak to Water in Eureka. Maybe spawners blessed by Byregot/Rhalgr or Thaliak/Nymeia would fare better?

While that sounds plausible at first, there is a chance that all players in an instance would be of one guardian deity, and they would be short on luck if that was the case.

[Myriads]

Last evening my group and another were trying to spawn Anthro, and between us we easily killed well over a 100 crabs, perhaps 200. The King never spawned.

The instance dwindled, and my group moved on to clear some challenge logs for members and suddenly there were only 13 people left in the instance. And Surabhi spawned. The interesting thing is that over the previous 2+ hours no one had been killing any billygoats. That area was deserted. 12 of us gathered and took down Surabhi with no issues at all.

I can't see a reason he spawned other then he just wanted to and did.

[MicahZerrshia]

Just out of curiosity I've checked your Lodestone to confirm a hunch and voilà: your guardian deity is Althyk, Umbral Earth and weak to Water in Eureka. Maybe spawners blessed by Byregot/Rhalgr or Thaliak/Nymeia would fare better?

They would never put anything that needlessly complex in this game. They tend to keep things as absolutely, bare bone simple as possible. Most difficulty and complexity is also reduced to a numbers game which is why they use dps checks over tactics in content and relay on "highest number wins" for weapons and armor instead of adding boons to armor sets or individual pieces and let the players decide what would work best for a given situation.

I myself believe people are overthinking it. It is likely something so extremely simple that it's being overlooked. But best thing to do it check numbers, its likely in there somewhere and even more likely bloated to cause an increased sense of difficulty. It's again more likely that they overbloated the numbers still since they always over or under estimate those calculations and since they made Anemos so easy, its likely they overdid it in Pagos.

I could also see them just removing the specific spawn conditions completely and just have each one appear randomly at a given time, under certain weather conditions, etc. depending on the amount of overall damage is done in the zone compared to the # of players in it. Which would make more sense if they were trying to force ppl to not just afk.