Any update on Gil for Crysta? [WOW Gold for Subscription Model in FFXIV]

[KisaiTenshi]

WoW token is far from an abject failure. It was so successful they now allow it to be used for other Battle.net purchases.

Right, so the RMT players just buy the gold cheaper from the bots when the bots are cheaper, and thus they've bought their battle.net games at discount. That's a failure. It's a money laundering machine, whom Bizzard doesn't want to acknowledge (https://www.pcgamer.com/how-microtra...launder-money/ ).


I'll assume for the sake of argument that players aren't actually buying other games because they already have them, just cash shop consumables. So it's effectively P2W. I don't know what WoW's cash shop is like, because I've not played it, and it's likely I never will because of things like this.

Half of these attempts try to emulate EVE's Plex system (Archeage being one of them), and they've all failed at it, instead of ending RMT, it just caps the RMT's price. The developers have to have gold sinks in the game to drain off game money otherwise it just results in inflation, where the most valuable items take billions of money and the bots on the market send the value of materials through the floor, resulting in crafting becoming unprofitable. If you aren't selling the latest item from the patch, you're going to lose money. These other games completely fail to recognize how the game's PvP activity actually results in destruction of that money, hence there is a very large gold sink in the game that is inherent to how it's played. It's metaphorically a spreadsheet simulator. EVE is another game that I not played, because this P2W element was not attractive in the least.

Like I really have to say it again, games that have straight up put the game currency on the cash shop, have admitted that they are failing and are trying to squeeze the last bit of money out of players without adequate sinking of the game currency. That puts players without deep wallets at an extreme disadvantage against players whom can just buy their way into the end-game. Nearly everything in FFXIV other than crafting doesn't even need you to have any gil. You can finish the game, and compete in raids and PvP without ever buying anything.

[MomomiMomi]

Right, so the RMT players just buy the gold cheaper from the bots when the bots are cheaper, and thus they've bought their battle.net games at discount. That's a failure. It's a money laundering machine, whom Bizzard doesn't want to acknowledge (https://www.pcgamer.com/how-microtra...launder-money/ ).


I'll assume for the sake of argument that players aren't actually buying other games because they already have them, just cash shop consumables. So it's effectively P2W. I don't know what WoW's cash shop is like, because I've not played it, and it's likely I never will because of things like this.

Half of these attempts try to emulate EVE's Plex system (Archeage being one of them), and they've all failed at it, instead of ending RMT, it just caps the RMT's price. The developers have to have gold sinks in the game to drain off game money otherwise it just results in inflation, where the most valuable items take billions of money and the bots on the market send the value of materials through the floor, resulting in crafting becoming unprofitable. If you aren't selling the latest item from the patch, you're going to lose money. These other games completely fail to recognize how the game's PvP activity actually results in destruction of that money, hence there is a very large gold sink in the game that is inherent to how it's played. It's metaphorically a spreadsheet simulator. EVE is another game that I not played, because this P2W element was not attractive in the least.

Like I really have to say it again, games that have straight up put the game currency on the cash shop, have admitted that they are failing and are trying to squeeze the last bit of money out of players without adequate sinking of the game currency. That puts players without deep wallets at an extreme disadvantage against players whom can just buy their way into the end-game. Nearly everything in FFXIV other than crafting doesn't even need you to have any gil. You can finish the game, and compete in raids and PvP without ever buying anything.

You have shown a clear misunderstanding of the system, as there is no inflation. The gil is not for sale on the cash shop. It is received from another player. Gil is not created, it simply moves hands.

Furthermore, a gil cap on RMT trades is a win by any measure. It means you're cutting into their profits, no longer letting them have their monopoly of your (the developer) assets.


Some players may buy from the bots still, but you are completely ignoring all the players who will be willing to pay a higher price for a completely safe method of getting their gil. No risk of being scammed, and better yet, no risk of being banned.

[Mysticales]

I wouldnt want this.. while its "nice" idea to use my hobby to pay for itself.. I know I would inflate the MB market so much.. just to get that gil. I rather keep things the way they are, simple and smooth.. even with me being as a merchant.

[Elamys]

Question: If you've never played WoW, why are you trying to say the game's failing? Because it's not. The actual WoW players on this thread have all pointed out that it's a system that has benefited everyone in game; and I'm sorry, but if you haven't played, you don't have the same perspective. Also, your article that you linked itself admits that money laundering via games, while it happens, is merely the realm of petty criminals and small amounts that really only happens on actual free to play games because it is so risky.

1.) There are no consumables in WoW's cash shop - just account wide mounts and pets, and a few vanity headpieces. The amount of items in the cash shop is minuscule in comparison to FFXIV.

2.) Just like in FFXIV, you don't NEED gold to participate in any content or complete anything. Even for raiders, for buying consumables, most raid groups have a dedicated crafter to supply members with flasks, potions, and food. Many dedicated guilds also help mitigate repair costs with their banks, though repair costs are easily covered by just completing daily quests and vendoring garbage drops. These items are also needed for raiding in FFXIV and represent the only "need" that needs to be purchased with gil.

3.) There are a number of gold sinks in WoW, something FFXIV sorely lacks. These gold sinks include the Black Market Auction House (to purchase rare vanity items, pets, and mounts), very expensive mounts like the stupid spider I forgot the name of, and minipets. And people want these items, very very badly. FFXIV does not have a single gold sink outside of buying a house.

4.) Crafting and gathering are EXTREMELY profitable in WoW. The introduction of the token did not kill that at all. Gatherers were the undisputed kings of gold making last expansion, with a single piece of material often selling for 35 gold a piece or more, and this was three years after the addition of the token. When you can get 4-5 items on even a normal node, that's a lot. People didn't need to buy WoW tokens to make gold. Most people I know that make gold don't buy tokens to get it. They just needed a miner, herbalist, or both. This applies even to items from old expansions. In fact, armor drops from the original zones are some of the most valuable items in the game.

For those who do not know how the WoW token works:

1.) A player decides they want to earn some gold. They have an option to pay Blizzard $20 for a token.

2.) The token is listed on the auction house by Blizzard. The seller does not choose the price. It is priced according to demand.

3.) A person who wants to add to their Battle.net balance, for game time or B.net store purchases, goes to the auction house, selects WoW token, and presses Buy. The "oldest" token on the AH is immediately sold. The buyer does not select who to buy from.

4.) The gold leaves the buyer's inventory and is mailed to the seller. No gold is generated. It is traded from one player to the other, just like buying any other item. Both people leave happy.

[KisaiTenshi]

You have shown a clear misunderstanding of the system, as there is no inflation. The gil is not for sale on the cash shop. It is received from another player. Gil is not created, it simply moves hands.

As I said, every game that has tried this, thinks they're going to end up with EVE's system. EVE's system results in the destruction of the money as a part of the game. You can blow up a ship ( https://www.theverge.com/2014/1/29/5...hips-destroyed, https://www.polygon.com/2018/1/24/16...battle-results ) and literately destroy large amounts of the game's circulating money as a result.

Conventional fantasy MMORPG's, do not have any means of sinking the game currency. FFXIV especially has nothing to sink gil.

[MomomiMomi]

As I said, every game that has tried this, thinks they're going to end up with EVE's system. EVE's system results in the destruction of the money as a part of the game. You can blow up a ship ( https://www.theverge.com/2014/1/29/5...hips-destroyed, https://www.polygon.com/2018/1/24/16...battle-results ) and literately destroy large amounts of the game's circulating money as a result.

Conventional fantasy MMORPG's, do not have any means of sinking the game currency. FFXIV especially has nothing to sink gil.

And this changes that how? Gil is not created by this sytem.

This is not the PLEX system. This is the WoW Token system. They do not work the same.

[Elamys]

As I said, every game that has tried this, thinks they're going to end up with EVE's system. EVE's system results in the destruction of the money as a part of the game. You can blow up a ship ( https://www.theverge.com/2014/1/29/5...hips-destroyed, https://www.polygon.com/2018/1/24/16...battle-results ) and literately destroy large amounts of the game's circulating money as a result.

Conventional fantasy MMORPG's, do not have any means of sinking the game currency. FFXIV especially has nothing to sink gil.

Again, WoW has gold sinks for vanity items. Don't underestimate people's vanity and love of collecting. Don't talk about EVE's system, because that's not the one we're talking about. Talk about the game with the system that we want.

[KisaiTenshi]

And this changes that how? Gil is not created by this sytem.

This is not the PLEX system. This is the WoW Token system. They do not work the same.

Gil is an infinite resource, people brag about how they can get a million gil a day doing nearly nothing.

[MomomiMomi]

Gil is an infinite resource, people brag about how they can get a million gil a day doing nearly nothing.

Relevance to the discussion?

You're just spouting things now.

[hynaku]

It worked for GW2 don't see half the bots that use to see. GW2 also has it where can also buy cash shop money with gold you earned in the game. There system goes both ways. I don't see problem with it. Gil is hard to get now with all those thats under cutting everyone all the time and lowering prices so low mats cost more than item sells for.