How to give advice

[Liselsia]

Here's me advice: the op clearly stated he knew he should "work on" things.

What he didn't state is he queued up for something knowing full well he is subpar at his chosen role.

"Work on" things when other people don't need to carry you. Read your tooltips. Randoms aren't obligated to carry you, even if courtesy requires them to be nice when telling you you're incompetent.

You are, however, required by simple courtesy to play your role at an adequate level. If you can't or refuse to do that, you only have yourself to blame when people want to kick you.

That was also my first thought as well. He fully admits he is playing the class wrong, but shows little desire to play better for his teammates. Instead he continues to purposely play the job wrong simply out of apathy. Someone like this would be the exact type to not take criticism well. The type where you try to give some tips and suggestions on how they could improve and they blow up in your face acting like you just killed their first born. We really can't have a conversation on the subject without making many assumptions which I have clearly done myself. But I think most people can agree with someone who actively chooses to play their job wrong is going to take even the slightest criticism as an attack.

So I do agree their is nuance on how to and how not to deliver criticism. I feel the massive elephant in the room is OP most likely was given reasonable suggestions on how to do job better and he flipped out and made this thread. I do think productive conversation can be had even despite this but I think it is important to acknowledge.

[Ilan]

"Let me school you" is usually a joke. If you play more competitive or PvP mmos you'll see a lot of people talking like that to their friends when giving them advice on how to do something.

If something that small messed up the rest of your run.....yikes...

The interesting part is that a lot of people think it is rude to give unasked tips anyway. I don't know if they prefer to get kicked instead or straight up flamed if they don't do their job at least decent (and i'm not talking about new players here).

I had a PLD in a dungeon once who could absolutly not hold hate agains me or my fc buddy even with his up to date gear. We both tried, in a friendly way, to explain to him that spamming flash is not a good way of keeping hate of a pull (that was in HW) and that it is way easier to tab through the mobs while using his aggro combo. He got angry like hell, said we had no clue how to tank (we both were tank mains) and we just want to troll him in a way that no one ever did in the 2 years he mains PLD and left.

[van_arn]

The interesting part is that a lot of people think it is rude to give unasked tips anyway. I don't know if they prefer to get kicked instead or straight up flamed if they don't do their job at least decent (and i'm not talking about new players here).

I had a PLD in a dungeon once who could absolutly not hold hate agains me or my fc buddy even with his up to date gear. We both tried, in a friendly way, to explain to him that spamming flash is not a good way of keeping hate of a pull (that was in HW) and that it is way easier to tab through the mobs while using his aggro combo. He got angry like hell, said we had no clue how to tank (we both were tank mains) and we just want to troll him in a way that no one ever did in the 2 years he mains PLD and left.

He ate the penalty and saved you from kicking him, so that's fine. Let him live in his own little world where he's the best tank ever.

If he shows up again and does the same thing, just blacklist him.

[Ilan]

He ate the penalty and saved you from kicking him, so that's fine. Let him live in his own little world where he's the best tank ever.

If he shows up again and does the same thing, just blacklist him.

Oh well we had our laughs because of that, but none of us remembers the name because it wasn't that important.

[Usho]

How to give advice:


Easy. Don't. Most players don't want the advice. Most want to be bad and will take offense if you even try to offer advice. They'll think you're condemning them or demeaning them and they will lash out at you. It leads to conflict and a waste of time.


Honestly, offer advice IF they ask for it. The best advice I can give is to let them experience first hand failure or w/e so they get that they need to do something differently or better. THAT's how people learn, least in this game anyway.



Just keep your advice to yourself and only offer it when someone asks.






/2 cents

[Nixxe]

How to give advice:


Easy. Don't. Most players don't want the advice. Most want to be bad and will take offense if you even try to offer advice. They'll think you're condemning them or demeaning them and they will lash out at you. It leads to conflict and a waste of time.


Honestly, offer advice IF they ask for it. The best advice I can give is to let them experience first hand failure or w/e so they get that they need to do something differently or better. THAT's how people learn, least in this game anyway.



Just keep your advice to yourself and only offer it when someone asks.






/2 cents

People keep saying this, but I'll tell you right now that if we wipe on a boss in a dungeon, I will state what needs to change in order to not wipe because I'm not interested in spending half the duty timer hoping people spontaneously figure it out or we RNG our way through it. I generally just say how to handle the mechanics without actually naming anyone, even if it's obvious who it was because it only affects the healer or something, but if that's met with "Don't give me advice" or anything of the sort, my response is simply going to be to vote kick them for thinking they're more important than the group and the run. If that's what people who don't want advice would prefer, then that's fine. However, I assume if they don't like advice, they'll like being kicked for poor performance and a poor attitude even less, so perhaps those people who are that sensitive to any sort of criticism should be working on that as well.

[Rymm]

The one thing that I wish this game allowed is private messages to/from people in dungeons. When I was playing WoW, if I got grouped with someone who was either screwing up mechanics or their class bad enough to warrant stepping in with suggestions, I almost always PMed them to offer advice. People tended to be much more receptive when they didn't feel like they were being called out in front of the rest of group. Not that I still didn't get my head bitten off or ignored as well sometimes, but there actually seemed to be less of the 'You don't pay my sub!' attitude there than here. I can only conclude this is because I gave most of my advice in private, because in my general experience, in all other aspects the FF14 community is less hostile than WoW's.

[Sigma-Astra]

How to give advice:


Easy. Don't. Most players don't want the advice. Most want to be bad and will take offense if you even try to offer advice. They'll think you're condemning them or demeaning them and they will lash out at you. It leads to conflict and a waste of time.

A person being legitimately bad at a run also causes unnecessary conflict and also wastes people's time. They should realize that their parents aren't here to pat them on the head and give them a gold star for trying. Trying is important, but so is actually making the effort to improve and taking constructive criticism gracefully when you know you're in the wrong and could stand to improve your playstyle.

When I give advice, I try to be nice as possible and make sure that my tone can't come off any other way, however, when the other player refuses to A) Listen or B) tries to be snarky about it then C) I will either initiate a vote dismiss myself or just leave the party, take the penalty if I must, and find something else better to do with my time.

If you want to be bad, great, do it on your own time or with friends. I'm not paying $41 every quarter to sit through a healer that spams only Cure 1, a tank who refuses to use cooldowns, or a DPS who presses any button in a random order. Thanks in advance.

[Laerune]

Be respectful, think of how the other player would feel if you gave him/her the advice. Just by putting yourself in their shoes, you will come a long way.

[Ilan]

Be respectful, think of how the other player would feel if you gave him/her the advice. Just by putting yourself in their shoes, you will come a long way.

If i do stuff wrong i'm gratefull if someone points it out if i don't know it allready that i messed up, if it is in a normal way ofc, but i guess i'm just not so special that i have to be offended by someone who dares to give me an advice.