How to give advice

[ko_]

Knowing the difference between an AoE-spell and a ST-spell is "high competency"?
In my book, its not - its part of the very basic-concept and required knowledge as DPS, just how it is very basic and required knowledge as healer to be aware how your healing-spells work and for a tank to know how to hold aggro and how to use cooldowns.

Learning and practising is okay in leveling dungeons, yes - but please show me that you're doing that or I'll give you the needed hint. If someone is casting Thunder IV on a ST repeatedly, chances are that they either never read the tooltip or forgot what it said, which means they'll most likely never find out that they're doing something wrong their. Its not as if they're trying to figure out wether Thunder IV or Thunder III is the stronger spell. All they're doing right in this moment is practising a wrong rotation, which is gonna bite them in the behind later.

The basic-rotations in this game dont require you to be a genius - and knowing the difference between your AoE and your ST toolkit requires nothing more of you than reading your tooltips.
We're not talking about how to use Convert and an Aether to get more Flares out of your rotation.

Why is it always "Oh, if you're not doing savage, you dont need to know what half your skills do!"?
And how is someone supposed to learn in dungeons if they're not aware that or what they need to work on? Your rotation (specially as DPS) is pretty much muscle memory and thats what you should practise in a dungeon: Using your correct rotation for the situation (AoE vs. ST) blindley. Obviously that requires you to know this rotation before. You're not in a dungeon to figure out what your spells do and to read the tooltips, while the rest of your party patiently waits for your to do your homework in class.
I'll give leeway for the first 4 dungeons though, for people who are really new to the genre, but past that I expect a healer to do more than spam their stromgest healing-skill, a tank to use cooldowns and their aggro-skills and a DPS to know the difference between AoE and ST.

Long story short: Yes, dungeons are training grounds, but you're not learning anything if you train the wrong stuff.
I've never been to a gym, but I would hope that if someone uses some of the equiment there in a wrong way, someone else would come over to tell them "Hey, you're holding this wrong, let me show you!"

Well in your example the person was way nicer then most people tend to be. But that's my point. Noone is going to care if you yell at them or whatever. If you come with respect and welcoming them you'll more likely get the results you want. It's not perfect no. But those who snap for reason are shot anyway.

[Vidu]

Well in your example the person was way nicer then most people tend to be. But that's my point. Noone is going to care if you yell at them or whatever. If you come with respect and welcoming them you'll more likely get the results you want. It's not perfect no. But those who snap for reason are shot anyway.

Yes, but the person didnt ask either, which is all that I'm arguing about: Advice should be given in a polite, friendly and constructive way (personally, I try to present it lightly or as some form of I-message - "I found it very useful to do X, maybe you want to try it too?"), but if someone is doing something wrong and is training the wrong (brain) muscles right now, I dont think it requires asking for permission to correct that.

If the OP would have been "Hey, can we all make sure we give advice without being condescending?" I would have agreed with them in a heartbeat. But thats not what the OP was about. The OP was about "Before you give any advice, ask if you're allowed to". And thats what I dont agree with. As long as your advice is brought for in a polite manner, I consider that question a waste of everyones time, as long as the whole thing is only about something quick like "Please, use skil X instead of skill Y" or "Try to keep your buff up all the time!" or basically just repeating what the tooltip of the skill says - a tooltip that the person in question should have read before entering the dungeon.
The only time asking for permission is warranted in my book is if someone needs a longer explantion - in that case that question is not only for him but for the whole party to answer ("Would you mind waiting?")

Advice should always be given in a polite manner, so that it can (and should) be recived as constructive feedback and not as a personal attack.
But we dont need to walk on eggshells here - we just need to be polite in the way we interact with others. That includes how we phrase advice, but for me it also includes knowing your basics once you've got your jobstone.

[ko_]

Yes, but the person didnt ask either, which is all that I'm arguing about: Advice should be given in a polite, friendly and constructive way (personally, I try to present it lightly or as some form of I-message - "I found it very useful to do X, maybe you want to try it too?"), but if someone is doing something wrong and is training the wrong (brain) muscles right now, I dont think it requires asking for permission to correct that.

If the OP would have been "Hey, can we all make sure we give advice without being condescending?" I would have agreed with them in a heartbeat. But thats not what the OP was about. The OP was about "Before you give any advice, ask if you're allowed to". And thats what I dont agree with. As long as your advice is brought for in a polite manner, I consider that question a waste of everyones time, as long as the whole thing is only about something quick like "Please, use skil X instead of skill Y" or "Try to keep your buff up all the time!" or basically just repeating what the tooltip of the skill says - a tooltip that the person in question should have read before entering the dungeon.
The only time asking for permission is warranted in my book is if someone needs a longer explantion - in that case that question is not only for him but for the whole party to answer ("Would you mind waiting?")

Advice should always be given in a polite manner, so that it can (and should) be recived as constructive feedback and not as a personal attack.
But we dont need to walk on eggshells here - we just need to be polite in the way we interact with others. That includes how we phrase advice, but for me it also includes knowing your basics once you've got your jobstone.

Yeah your example I agree with after reading and understanding your view. Hope that didn't cause stress before that. I know debates can get heated.