How to give advice

[Nixxe]

Why on earth would I blame the devs for other people excluding certain jobs because they decided that catering towards themselves and the meta compositions is more important than being a decent human being online and offline?

No, I blame the human being behind the damn screen, not because the developers can sometimes be incompetent. The developers being incompetent is not an excuse to act like a bully towards other who favor certain classes and then ostracize them from said content. They deserve, so long as they bring the skills to back it up, to enjoy any piece of content as any job with the same amount of importance as you do. Any job can do casual and Savage content, I call bs on that. It's the person playing that job that determines that, not the job itself.

If you're ostracizing someone else from your static simply because of the job they play instead of their own skills and effort at playing said job, then yes, you're being rather toxic.

What's toxic is the sense of entitlement you have towards other people's time and effort, going so far as to say they should decrease their own chance of achieving their goals simply to accommodate yours.

[Souljacker]

Taking pride for being a BLM lmao

Most of people don’t like them because have 0 buff for the party and are lazy to dodge
Most of pugs or statics exclude them from the search me included xD

Why would you trash that player for enjoying a job? So you personally think it brings nothing to your groups. Awesome. You are so leet I'm in awe of your greatness.

What exactly did you get out of trashing that player and his\her chosen job on a forum?

[JohnSeal]

Why would you trash that player for enjoying a job? So you personally think it brings nothing to your groups. Awesome. You are so leet I'm in awe of your greatness.

What exactly did you get out of trashing that player and his\her chosen job on a forum?

OMG sorry sorry I didn’t mean to offend, I apologies to him ! I really was just jocking around lol like sounded funny as he said it xD I find BLM fun to play in dangeoun, it’s like everything flashing and flaming (: was my first class at the begin and also I think the job quests are the really good.

No ostracism of any kind promise, everyone need to find the class that much more their personality and inclination.

It’s not the most popular class but doesn’t matter


Apologies again if it sounded offensive or insulting!

[NanaWiloh]

There are 2 reasons why players hate being giving advice that they did not ask for. 1. They want to figure things out out their own. 2. They have had too many experiences were a player gave advice like half-cocked jerk. Which for some people instantly makes all players who give advice jerks. If dont you like being seen as a jerk then dont give unrequested advice, otherwise accept the fact that when you give unrequested advice you may be seen as jerk. Lastly dont get angry or butt hurt cause someone you gave advice too does not make use of it.

[Vidu]

There are 2 reasons why players hate being giving advice that they did not ask for. 1. They want to figure things out out their own. 2. They have had too many experiences were a player gave advice like half-cocked jerk. Which for some people instantly makes all players who give advice jerks. If dont you like being seen as a jerk then dont give unrequested advice, otherwise accept the fact that when you give unrequested advice you may be seen as jerk. Lastly dont get angry or butt hurt cause someone you gave advice too does not make use of it.

To 1: If you want to figure things out on your own, thats fine. If its something like boss mechanics etc. I'll even gladly do a blind run and keep my mouth shut. But if you want to figure out your rotation on your own, then do it on your own time aswell, not in a dungeon. There are training dummies out there, if you want to try out a (new) rotation. There are tooltips, that you should read before you enter a dungeon - not in the middle of it (only expection being ofc if you level up in a dungeon and just got the new skill). With how this game works, there is very little wiggle room on rotations and they're also pretty straight forward. There isnt much to figure out or try out to begin with. And you dont need to be in a dungeon to figure most things out - all you need to do is sit down, read your tooltips and then think for a moment in what situations that skill is useful.

Wanting to "figure out stuff on your own" isnt a proper argument against advice that concerns someones basic-rotation in content where they reasonably should be expected to have it figured out. And if you havent, then accept that people will point that out to you.

To 2: I'll repeat myself, by saying that advice should be given in a polite and friendly manner, but thats all. If someone calls anyone a jerk because of unrequested, yet polite and friendly advice or thinks of them that way, the problem here doesnt lie with the person giving the advice, but the person reciving it.
Dont get angry or butthurt, because someone in a team-based game noticed a weakness of yours and gave you advice on how to fix it.

[NanaWiloh]

To 1: If you want to figure things out on your own, thats fine. If its something like boss mechanics etc. I'll even gladly do a blind run and keep my mouth shut. But if you want to figure out your rotation on your own, then do it on your own time aswell, not in a dungeon. There are training dummies out there, if you want to try out a (new) rotation. There are tooltips, that you should read before you enter a dungeon - not in the middle of it (only expection being ofc if you level up in a dungeon and just got the new skill). With how this game works, there is very little wiggle room on rotations and they're also pretty straight forward. There isnt much to figure out or try out to begin with. And you dont need to be in a dungeon to figure most things out - all you need to do is sit down, read your tooltips and then think for a moment in what situations that skill is useful.

Wanting to "figure out stuff on your own" isnt a proper argument against advice that concerns someones basic-rotation in content where they reasonably should be expected to have it figured out. And if you havent, then accept that people will point that out to you.

To 2: I'll repeat myself, by saying that advice should be given in a polite and friendly manner, but thats all. If someone calls anyone a jerk because of unrequested, yet polite and friendly advice or thinks of them that way, the problem here doesnt lie with the person giving the advice, but the person reciving it.
Dont get angry or butthurt, because someone in a team-based game noticed a weakness of yours and gave you advice on how to fix it.

Its a two way street one side gives other recieves both sides have issues with the other. From it we get threads like this one where both sides present their view on giving advice. :P I will forever remain a silent party as far as givng and recieving advice in game goes.

[Dreamsoap]

Seconding the whole "Can't exactly trust a random stranger to give good advice". 2 years ago before I quit, I met a higher lvl monk in a 40 something dungeon. Could not drop the self love and boasting, using newbie me as a means of comparison for skill. The aforementioned self love made it really hard to take any of their "advice" seriously, because it really just sounded like she was tanking any opportunity to snark, making herself look better to her friend. Another time was told that "Flank" means rear and I should always attack from behind. Later met a friend Monk on my server who started teaching me higher level content, and just showed the results of his rotation rather than blowing hot air about it. These days I'd really rather just learn off of people who can put their money where their mouth is. Not discounting that valid advice can come from a PUG, but I'm going to laugh if you really think yourself so important to random strangers.

[Lambdafish]

This thread needs a counter thread called "How to receive advice"

[JohnSeal]

Surprises surprise I wake in the morning and still this thread is “hot” but not surprised out of topic now lol
People at the begin were talking about “how to give advice” and many people agree that the way you talk to others matter and some way to boss peoples around unsettle inexperienced player.
Still there are player willing to learn and others that are not.

Everybody agrees that the game doesn’t provide enough instruments to master your class from early stage,some classes are really intuitive to learn and other more complicated, some class evolve lvl by lvl and other totally change at lvl 70.
Practice and master you class is everything especially when you enter in Savage,Ex contents.

At lvl 70 everybody are forced to dedicate time to study, research and optimise a rotation before to enter savage.
Example someone makes like RDM not using melee skills,BRD not using heavy shot etc refers to player that don’t know how to play, don’t practice and don’t study enough so are not able or suppose to join savage content because this is basic knowledge.

Totally different story for players that know all they need to know and master their rotation but they just need to practice the content itself.
Many classes without muscle memory and right positioning are really difficult to optimise, I honestly can’t play melee at all because I am not confident with the gameplay itself of standing close all time but still I know the rotation well.
BLM is really difficulty to optimise because if you can’t stand still then you can’t deal dmg it takes more than few runs to practice positioning and everything in a specific content so that’s why many parties prefer other ranged. Also in progression or not a support class is required and a RDM with ability to Rez is really welcomed but a SMN also because are more agile and flexible to move. Sam it’s pretty great and much easier to play than other melees and got some great dmg so it’s good at any level. People want DRG/mnk or NIN but that not ostracism at all because their buffs are great for the team.

Top players are over 6k (7k for BLM and Sam) but that is not essential for clear savage content at all! The DPS checks are pretty large really luckyly for us and you can clear as well with 4 DPS that deal average of 5k each. All 4 DPS can have all green logs but still clear it with no problem if nobody makes mistakes.
It’s really rare to find DPS so bad that are setting the team to fail, I have been doing raids farm the last week and got uncountable clears now and it happen three times to be forced to kick a DPS for severely underperforming, three player out of 100 so that is not a lot (: Honestly most of player getting kicked ( not by me) in parties are tank for making horrendous mistakes or not using cds and endangering the group or healers for same reasons.

[JohnSeal]

Long story short: practice is everything at any lvl and with any job, but for tank and healers tge requirement are relatively easier compare to DPS.
Explaining myself: healers need to keep everybody alive,you can spam healing if you panicked or are inexperienced as far as you do your best and you have global uptime over 90% (better 95%) during the fight, so if everybody is full you attack ofc. Essential is to know how to use your skills correctly ( like you don’t cure III if the party is not in a 3y range or you don’t succor again if the shield is not broken easy stuff) .
Tanks have straightforward task in a fight, you learn it and do it correctly, hold aggro and use cds stop.
For DPS is a really delicate job of counting timers, not make any mistake or your dmg is gone while dodging or stacking promptly, in many case 1 mistake or death cost you the entire run and all your dmg.
So that’s why I don’t expect DPS to deal 6k + each run at all time but to follow mechs and not make mistake come first.