So, how is Pagos?

[Fawkes]

I kinda doubt that it's just former FFXI devs working on Eureka.

But it definitely feels like none of them play or understand this game. I think Yoshi said that was one of the problems with 1.0, that none of the devs played MMOs, so he made them play some. I think he might need to do that again.

[WhyAmIHere]

everyone keeps saying "yoshi said no one knows how best to get light."
that's a misquote. It's Elevel that YoshiP was talking about. What we know about light is what is known.

And it is awful. Because "our predecessors did it."

[Xion136]

Its not that we havent figured it out. Its that we simply gave up on the content entirely.

So much this. I spent maybe 30 minutes in Pagos, did the Bunny Fate...got nothing. Literally nothing.


Pagos does one if the worst sins a game can do: it does not respect my time.

The Relic grind of ARR? I did it halfway through HW. I hit 66 before Baelsars Wall. It let me make use of my time and I got it done, and was given weapon, EXP, etc.

The HW relic? I got Almace, Majestas, and am all prepared for Rhongomiad. But I have not gotten any weapons beyond Galatyn Anemos and Caladbolg.

Because Pagos disrespects my time.

[Floortank]

In game design, there is an art to making a challenging grind. You need to engage your playerbase, even when the grind gets tedious, with the promise of progress if they keep pushing.

Pagos fails in this regard: too much RNG makes progress too unreliable, and all of your light progress depends entirely on the biggest RNG factor of all: whether or not you get into an active instance.

Because every light source requires other people in the instance involved and doing things, your rate of light gain can fluctuate massively. I've had three hour lockouts where nothing happened, and this morning I built a party and got three crystals in 80 minutes. But that only happened because I got into a new instance and was able to grab the good dragon camp. Usually it's taken.

Again, way too much RNG, too little control over your progress, and people are tapping out and saying "I quit." And they're right to do so--nobody should play content that isn't fun.

I'm only still doing it because I am sadly devoted to my DRG; been a dedicated fan going all the way back to FFIV (FF2) on the SNES.

[Ash_]

So the only 2 changes to Pagos in the 4.4 patch notes is some sought of change to the heatwave weather and... making the exit more obvious?

I don't even. I can't process it anymore. I don't even get how according to the live letter digest that some got their relic very quickly and that's why they're doing nothing. Be nice to know how these few got their relic so quickly.

[Ilyrian]

Be nice to know how these few got their relic so quickly.

So I had the first one done the first day after the first reset.

The first week was spent - joining level appropriate groups in the PF - and working through level appropriate mobs. This usually got 2 levels per day.
NMs would pop because the instance had a spread of players at different levels working on monster grinds to level, spread over the map.
If a 30+ NM popped before the group had the teleports opened it was ignored.

As there was a regular stream of NMs - everyone had an abundance of Pagos crystals when they were needed at that point in the quest chain (this applied to me for weapon number 2 as well)

As people hit 35 the dragons were worked out as a constant (albeit small) source of light. Louhi was also constantly spawned and killed.

The problem with it all now - and this is affecting me as well - is that as soon as the train kicked back into motion the whole eco system was lost. The people who waited didn't level how I think SE envisioned it - the way the early adopters did - and it threw the whole system out of whack.

Crystals and Light came - almost - completely organically in those first 2 weeks, yes, there was some dragon farming but it (imo) never too excessive. Maybe I just have a higher tolerance to such things?

Personally I won't afk for hours waiting to spawn NMs for the crystals as it is the worst kind of experience for me personally I could imagine in an MMO. The whole attitude changed - the efficiency of those players in the first couple of weeks was replaced with whining and AFKing.

If the whole thing is going to split the player base this much then in future it should be avoided - but I think it should be noted that there was a system that (imo) worked in the intiial stages but wasn't sustainable - that in itself was bad design.

[XiXiQ]

considering I just killed 60 dragons and got the equivalent of ONE frosted crystal, this is getting more than a little ridiculous.

[Aster_E]

I am so close to freedom from this uninspired box of rock and ice, so close to no longer having to spam my single target rotations with so little promise of gains that I have to question if I'm at a striking dummy that hits back, and so close to never again having to shout for an invite to a group farming light (and then hoping with fingers crossed that the group holds together). Oh, and so close to never again having to see people shouting for Cassie prep as soon it turns Blizzards (because, as we all know, prep happens DURING a thing instead of before).

Just 1.2 bar, or so, of light to go and my fourth relic will be done until Pyros comes out, and then we'll see how good or bad (or both) that place is.

I'll do that in the early afternoon, and then get back to work on topping off seals and scrips before my FC's weekly Map Night. At least during that weekly event RNG can be understood, but good gods is it still a pain in the ass even then. That'll leave Saturday, then, to make my food, maybe hang out with the friend who just came back to the game, and yeah... There are such better ways of spending my time before the patch.

Like finally getting around to playing "Rise of the Tomb Raider." Hey look! Even the emptier areas surrounded by snow and ice look like more thought was put into their design. <_<;

[jameseoakes]

I am so close to freedom from this uninspired box of rock and ice, so close to no longer having to spam my single target rotations with so little promise of gains that I have to question if I'm at a striking dummy that hits back, and so close to never again having to shout for an invite to a group farming light (and then hoping with fingers crossed that the group holds together). Oh, and so close to never again having to see people shouting for Cassie prep as soon it turns Blizzards (because, as we all know, prep happens DURING a thing instead of before).

Just 1.2 bar, or so, of light to go and my fourth relic will be done until Pyros comes out, and then we'll see how good or bad (or both) that place is.

I'll do that in the early afternoon, and then get back to work on topping off seals and scrips before my FC's weekly Map Night. At least during that weekly event RNG can be understood, but good gods is it still a pain in the ass even then. That'll leave Saturday, then, to make my food, maybe hang out with the friend who just came back to the game, and yeah... There are such better ways of spending my time before the patch.

Like finally getting around to playing "Rise of the Tomb Raider." Hey look! Even the emptier areas surrounded by snow and ice look like more thought was put into their design. <_<;

Well come 4.4 the exit will be more clearly marked making your escape even easier

[Xau]

Well come 4.4 the exit will be more clearly marked making your escape even easier

which is kinda odd, there is a faster way to leave what by the exit, just by opening df and press leave