So, how is Pagos?

[Tint]

i have to wonder why they don't just cut the NM's completely out of the content?

okay i have an idea:

you get quests for your party. party leader accepts them and these quests are nothing else than "grind mob x till a boss of mob x spawns" - and this boss is for your party alone, just like treasure maps or leves, no open world zergfest. when you kill the boss the quest is completed, you get exp, crystals and lockboxes and you can accept a new quest where you have to grind a different mob.

[HyoMinPark]

You know what I feel sorry for? All these FATEs and monster's HP, skills, behavior, coding, designing the instance - all these resources poured into a concept that the players have said countless times that they do not enjoy. Yes, it feels lazy as a whole but it's still workhours poured there. It just baffles me why they insist so much on feeding us the diadem over and over again.

I can appreciate this, because I feel much the same way. And not only about Eureka—I frequently look at the overworld and how much detail and time they must have put into the maps, and then lament how empty they are because the developers cannot create interesting overworld content.

However, I don’t think I can defend the developers in some of their decisions they make. Some I can understand and Devil’s Advocate for, but anything surrounding what Pagos has become I cannot defend. Because to do so would also be defending them not really listening to feedback from the playerbase. There was a lot of talk back when Anemos was current on ways to add variety to it (e.g., Daily Quests, adding in DoL/DoH activities, etc.), and NONE of that was even listened to. They couldn’t even put in a Party Level Sync option, which is STILL being requested.

Idk.
/rant

[Edax]

Despite spending so my time in Eureka Anemos so I could fully upgrade my class outfit, after two days of Pagos I was ready to give it up. It was just endless grinding, and it's the kind that discourages going to the bathroom or getting up to get a drink or even type in chat and it's incredibly loud so you can't even listen to podcasts during it. It's horrible. I got to be really social during the Anemos train and I could guess the devs would be irritated that so much of their content was being bypassed by the train, but I didn't think they were THIS angry! We were having fun, having discussions and it was an excellent alternative to the fast paced duty routletts. Now there's almost no distinction since both Pagos and duty roulettes require maximum attention, all for a piece of gear that will be obsolete in a few months anyway. I hope they listen to the feedback and let the train return via patch because this grindfest is going to burn out half the community that got into Eureka in the first place.

This is starting to remind me of the Star Wars Galaxies Jedi debacle. The devs need to think of the player's perspective, not the dev's perspective. If the player ignores some of your content, it isn't to spite you guys, it was because there was a more fun alternative. The train developed, not just because it was more efficient but also because it was more fun and more social. We ended up in a lot of FFXI discussions while waiting for NM to pop. Will that ever happen in Pagos?

[IMG][/IMG]

[Solarra]

At this point I feel like a better design would've been to get rid of the NMs and give you some other ways to get what they're dropping. There's really no reason to leave in a functionality the developers so vehemently oppose.

The problem is the whole design revolves around fates, just like Diadem. We tell the devs we don't really like them but they seem completely stuck on the idea that this is the best way to do open-world content (ok, I know Eureka is instanced but hopefully you get what I mean).
When Anemos came out there was a lot of criticism and suggestions of how Eureka could be improved:
People asked for dailies or something similar to Hamlet Defence - we didn't get them
We asked for treasure-hunting and reasons to explore and what did they give us? The bunny fate...

[BillyKaplan]

The problem is the whole design revolves around fates, just like Diadem.

I didn't run Diadem much but the few times I was in it it was FATE bouncing. And with a party of friends, it was actually fun. That's why Anemos was anywhere between tolerable and fun for a lot of people.
Pagos rejects the concepts of NMs with how the devs went about it. You no longer have the one or two NMs no one can be bothered with spawning while the other NMs get spawned anywhere else (Pazuzu was the only NM in that area I saw being reliably spawned, and I've no idea if that's still the case given you can get his feathers elsewhere now). Instead, you're lucky to see an NM spawn at all. Some NMs seemingly can't be spawned within a single lockout. That's not a design that revolves around FATEs, that's a design that revolves around the mindless grind and occasionally, maybe, gives you an NM for your trouble.

An fc mate of mine who loved the social interactions in Anemos went into Pagos today. Not half an hour later he was out, swearing off the content and reconsidering his sub in one fell swoop. SB has been meh to him so far with Anemos actually being a highlight. Pagos wrecked that.

[BunnyChain]

Rewards: not worth it.
Gameplay: not worth it.
Social interactions: severely hindered.


What you get in Pagos: Carpal tunnel, snow blindness and thoughts about throwing yourself off that cliff.

After the Yokai, Diadem and Anemos FATE spam, I wouldn't have thought I'd say this but, I want the FATEs back.

[Ash_]

It really sucks to work long hours, the 2-3 hours I can log in I see maybe only 2 NM's. 4 if I'm lucky. I then go to sleep feeling like I've made no progress at all and wondered why in the world I wasted my time. And the majority of the JP players more than a week later are still gathered at the starting point waiting for a train to start, so it's a pain to find a group to do any grinding.

Oh well it's ok. Just me and sooo many others will be sporting 355 weapons for 4.4. I might be able to get 1 or 2 tome weapons in time (I don't raid).

[Solarra]

Pagos rejects the concepts of NMs with how the devs went about it... you're lucky to see an NM spawn at all.

Point taken.
What I was trying to get at is that Pagos is basically the same design as Anemos only with a severe nerf to the rate of NM spawns introduced as a way of derailing the train. That isn't going to work; take out the NMs (or reduce them as they have) and there's nothing left except grind, which only a very small proportion of players seem to enjoy. If the train was such a bad thing that it had to be countered, then the devs needed to come up with alternative ways for people to play and they haven't done that.

I really can't see what harm the train did personally, it had people playing together and co-operating and it also helped low-level players catch up. It feels to me that the devs are either out of ideas or on such a tight schedule that only minimal tweaks can be made to content after release. Their solution to the train was relatively quick and easy to implement, but it has caused much bigger problems than the one it was meant to solve.

[Derio]

Pagos is really deconstructive.

People wont raise someone who is like a 30s run away from them because they dont want to break the chain. People dont talk. If you arent X level then you cant join Y group.

Anemos was so friendly, however Pagos is pretty much designed to be a toxic place. In Anemos people would break from the train to come raise you, people would crack jokes and chat in shout chat. Everyone is friendly there and having fun.

Pagos on the other hand is just a chain gang. Barely anyone speaks in shout chat.

The fact that there are two more zones after this, I just hope it gets better.

The funny thing is this content is suppose to be geared towards the casual playerbase, and there is nothing casual about Pagos

[Edax]

Point taken.

I really can't see what harm the train did personally, it had people playing together and co-operating and it also helped low-level players catch up. It feels to me that the devs are either out of ideas or on such a tight schedule that only minimal tweaks can be made to content after release. Their solution to the train was relatively quick and easy to implement, but it has caused much bigger problems than the one it was meant to solve.

I'm sure the devs got pissed because entire sections of the Eureka Amenos map and most of the mobs remained entirely untouched because the train allowed players to bypassed the mob grinding all together, so thought they'd FORCE us to get acquainted with each individual mob in Pagos intimately and experience the content they worked so hard to make, even if they had to make the player miserable to do it. Maybe it's revenge, I dunno. They probably saw the train as an exploit like Destiny's loot cave.