So, how is Pagos?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

First, there is no way I would be allowed to do anything with chains, once the train comes back. People become angry and bitter you don't do things their way. Second, once the train comes back, relics are handed out like candy again. That is not how it is meant to be. Third, you don't have to run Pagos or get a relic. You are free to do other content. Why don't people understand that this shouldn't be a cake walk. Nerfing the chains might even be a good idea, but I'm not sure.

Doesn't that tell you something? If you cannot get a chain party because of the NM train, that means people don't want to do it. Why is that a difficult concept? There is nothing stopping you from putting up a PF before even queuing for Eureka and trying to set up a train. If no one bites, well, I guess people don't like it. Regardless, you keep prattling on about people want relics handed to them. Multiple people in this thread, on reddit and virtually everywhere have they'd prefer the Unidentifiable Orbs or Book phase from previous relics. If you think either of those were a walk in the park, you've clearly never participated. What people want are options. Before we could run different dungeons, do beast tribes or trials. Now we're restricted to Pagos and only Pagos. It's easy to say people don't have to do it, but they are allowed to give feedback. And that feedback has been overwhelmingly negative regardless of your own opinion.

I suspect the actual reason you've continuously ignored people simply wanting options is because you know they won't do the chain, which is your preferred method. Therefore, you'll fight to keep it despite accusing others of simply wanting things their way, when you're doing precisely the same thing.

That being said, I have, indeed, elected not to partake in the relic this expansion if a boring, monotones grind is all they can muster. I have Savage weapons. And in less than a month, I'll have a crafted weapon because the relics will be outdated before most people even obtain them. Quality design choice.

[Zojha]

Now we're restricted to Pagos and only Pagos.

And, as a side note, that wouldn't even be so bad if the gameplay within Pagos would be sufficiently varied.

It just happens to be not.

[Kazgrel]

That being said, I have, indeed, elected not to partake in the relic this expansion if a boring, monotones grind is all they can muster. I have Savage weapons. And in less than a month, I'll have a crafted weapon because the relics will be outdated before most people even obtain them. Quality design choice.

That’s the real tragedy; the weapons may literally be useless in terms of anything other than being a glamour item.

I’m working to convince friends that we may as well git gud and start delving into savage and end up with BiS weapons that last a good 6+ months instead of having to slave away in more Eurekan shit for a relic weapon that may reach BiS around a month or two before next xpac.

[Zsolen]

Doesn't that tell you something? If you cannot get a chain party because of the NM train, that means people don't want to do it. Why is that a difficult concept? There is nothing stopping you from putting up a PF before even queuing for Eureka and trying to set up a train. If no one bites, well, I guess people don't like it. Regardless, you keep prattling on about people want relics handed to them. Multiple people in this thread, on reddit and virtually everywhere have they'd prefer the Unidentifiable Orbs or Book phase from previous relics. If you think either of those were a walk in the park, you've clearly never participated. What people want are options. Before we could run different dungeons, do beast tribes or trials. Now we're restricted to Pagos and only Pagos. It's easy to say people don't have to do it, but they are allowed to give feedback. And that feedback has been overwhelmingly negative regardless of your own opinion.

I suspect the actual reason you've continuously ignored people simply wanting options is because you know they won't do the chain, which is your preferred method. Therefore, you'll fight to keep it despite accusing others of simply wanting things their way, when you're doing precisely the same thing.

That being said, I have, indeed, elected not to partake in the relic this expansion if a boring, monotones grind is all they can muster. I have Savage weapons. And in less than a month, I'll have a crafted weapon because the relics will be outdated before most people even obtain them. Quality design choice.

Once the NM train is back, gameplay will be gone and Pagos will be boring. Yes, people take the easier route, but they will never enjoy it. Why make Pagos not enjoyable for anyone, just so it is 'tolerable' for some? Wouldn't it make more sense to have varied content for different types of players rather than limiting what people can do? If something is only tolerable, why even play it? It's not like anyone really needs the relic. You say I am being selfish but much of the instances in game are not even geared towards someone like me. Do I oppose it? No. You are not asking to change it a little or even moderately for quality of life purposes. You want the zerg train, in order to get it over with. You are not looking to enjoy it. If you don't like Pagos that much, don't do it. If there aren't enough people like me, SE will take the hint.

I've done others relics, but that really shouldn't matter. You guys need to stop with the hostility. I said it earlier that is why you will not see people disagreeing all that much.

[Kazgrel]

Once the NM train is back, gameplay will be gone and Pagos will be boring. Yes, people take the easier route, but they will never enjoy it. Why make Pagos not enjoyable for anyone, just so it is 'tolerable' for some? Wouldn't it make more sense to have varied content for different types of players rather than limiting what people can do? If something is only tolerable, why even play it? It's not like anyone really needs the relic. You say I am being selfish but much of the instances in game are not even geared towards someone like me. Do I oppose it? No. You are not asking to change it a little or even moderately for quality of life purposes. You want the zerg train, in order to get it over with. You are not looking to enjoy it. If you don't like Pagos that much, don't do it. If there aren't enough people like me, SE will take the hint.

I've done others relics, but that really shouldn't matter. You guys need to stop with the hostility. I said it earlier that is why you will not see people disagreeing all that much.

There won’t be an NM train in Pagos until majority of players in an instance are 30+...and it will only be those people because the map design makes getting around without having at least the second aetheryte unlocked a PITA and if players are 8 or more levels below a NM, they get significantly less xp; I made it to Angra while at 23 or 24 and came away with a whopping 29k xp from gold participation. Also, the crystals that only drop from NMs guarantee there will be a train by high levels. Lower level people looking to latch on to help catch up are left out in the cold.

[Nixxe]

Once the NM train is back, gameplay will be gone and Pagos will be boring. Yes, people take the easier route, but they will never enjoy it. Why make Pagos not enjoyable for anyone, just so it is 'tolerable' for some? Wouldn't it make more sense to have varied content for different types of players rather than limiting what people can do? If something is only tolerable, why even play it? It's not like anyone really needs the relic. You say I am being selfish but much of the instances in game are not even geared towards someone like me. Do I oppose it? No. You are not asking to change it a little or even moderately for quality of life purposes. You want the zerg train, in order to get it over with. You are not looking to enjoy it. If you don't like Pagos that much, don't do it. If there aren't enough people like me, SE will take the hint.

I've done others relics, but that really shouldn't matter. You guys need to stop with the hostility. I said it earlier that is why you will not see people disagreeing all that much.

I enjoyed Anemos. Sweeping generalizations built on lies are a poor way to argue anything.

[HyoMinPark]

Once the NM train is back, gameplay will be gone and Pagos will be boring.

Personal opinion. Not a fact. My opinion is that, if Pagos had the NM Train, it could finally become bearable content.

Why make Pagos not enjoyable for anyone, just so it is 'tolerable' for some?

As it stands right now, for the vast majority, Pagos is not enjoyable.

Wouldn't it make more sense to have varied content for different types of players rather than limiting what people can do?

Again, as it stands right now, there is no variation in the content within Pagos. The only option is grinding mobs, because the NM train has been nerfed into oblivion. Regardless of what you said, there were small pockets of chain parties in Anemos. I saw people shouting for it; I saw small parties doing it. And, as I said before, I spent enough time in Anemos to get all the weapons, and half of the gear.

Anemos had options (2 of them); Pagos does not.

It's not like anyone really needs the relic.

This is a strawman.

You say I am being selfish but much of the instances in game are not even geared towards someone like me. Do I oppose it? No.

Uh, what? Unless you're a Savage raider saying most content isn't tuned to your level of difficulty, this is incorrect. Nearly everything in this game is tuned to a more casual player. Even jobs were brought down in difficulty from HW to SB for the sole purpose of making them "easier to play".

You are not asking to change it a little or even moderately for quality of life purposes. You want the zerg train, in order to get it over with. You are not looking to enjoy it. If you don't like Pagos that much, don't do it. If there aren't enough people like me, SE will take the hint.

People want options. They don’t want to be forced into doing something they don’t enjoy for something that is designed for every player (Relics are content designed for every player, raiders and non-raiders alike).

You're saying the exact same thing in a way: you don't like the NM Train, because it's boring to you. And you're advocating against giving players a choice in relic content - content designed for everyone to participate in. You clearly aren't looking for the content to be something that can be enjoyed by everyone - you just want it to cater to your specific preferences.

I've done others relics, but that really shouldn't matter. You guys need to stop with the hostility. I said it earlier that is why you will not see people disagreeing all that much.

Then you would know how bad Pagos is when you see people asking for unnerfed Unidentifiable steps or Tomestones grinds instead. At least the steps that needed those items had various options for how to obtain them. I personally farmed light for my BRD Anima through farming Extreme primals for the mount—I did very little A1S spam on my first Anima.

I don't really see the hostility you're saying is here. I think you're interpreting disagreeing with your preferred way of fun as hostility. I'm sorry to say that they are not the same. You aren't a representative of some silent majority of players that think Pagos is the greatest thing since sliced bread. The proof of it being poorly received is in all 3 communities, and on various social media - not just here.

All valid requests, but they're being overshadowed by "give me back the train".

These same requests were made when Anemos was current. We all see how well SE listened to them.