So, how is Pagos?

[Souljacker]

the ppl who are honestly commenting on the lvl grind...i ask what game honestly doesnt have a grind to it that people tend to not like? also mounts are there but its at max lvl...im asking the vocal minority this...why do you guys hate diadem or diadem style gaming? i mean it wasnt that bad of a concept? also please tell me the diffrence between running 1000000 dungeons with the same boss pattern and complaining that this is the same as the last one? you pretty much dont have a valid excuse why u honestly hate it

HAVE YOU EVEN PLAYED THIS CONTENT?

The all caps was a mistake, but I'm leaving it. There are numerous posts about why Pagos < Anemos - Anemos was a grind that we made bearable and actually ended up being quite fun. Last night I was in a group that wiped to numbers because most of the 20's all went to prep Pazuzu. The shout chat was hilarious. The socializing is interesting. They had a halfway decent formula that with a few tweaks, could have been some of the greatest content this game has ever seen.

Instead of that they doubled down on the aspects people already hated about Anemos and somehow made the entire thing worse. SE is out of touch and it seems so are you if you think people are just complaining with no data to back it up.

Try playing the content a bit before you come in here and tell us how to feel about it.

The fact that I actually went back into Anemos instead of Pagos should tell SE all they need to know about their content.

[RyuDragnier]

This entire thread makes me wonder...how does the Japanese playerbase feel about Pagos? Do they like it, hate it, are indifferent to it, what?

[Tsumdere]

This entire thread makes me wonder...how does the Japanese playerbase feel about Pagos? Do they like it, hate it, are indifferent to it, what?

Here are some of the highest rated posts regarding Pagos. Keep in mind that on the Japanese forums instead of everyone posting their own opinion, if they have the same one they just like the post. This way it is easy to find the prevalent opinion.

Also : Fish Hunting = Chaining Mobs and/or Killing Trash Mobs

FF11的ないわゆる昔のMMOを意識してるんでしたっけ、エウレカは。
でも正直言ってこれ、FF11の悪いところとFF14の悪いところを合体させたみたいになってません…？
11やったことないんで聞いた話をもとにイメージしてる部分もありますけど…

具体的な問題点としては…エウレカでは敵をたくさん狩り続ける必要があるが、全体的に敵が硬い。
で、FF11の場合頻繁にコマンド入力をする必要はなかったが、FF14ではこまめに入力をし続ける必要があるので、この硬い敵を多数倒すというのはFF14のバトルシステムと合っていない。
しかも硬い敵をたくさん倒す苦労をしてもFF11ではドロップや経験値がうまかったが、エウレカはドロップも経験値もしょぼい…というか正直言ってほぼ無に等しい。
つまり延々キー操作を続けさせられる分FF11よりプレイヤーに要求される労力は大きいのに、リターンがFF11より乏しい。
というのが問題だと思います。

"I was conscious of the so-called old MMO like FF 11, Eureka.
But to be honest I did not seem to have united the bad places of FF 11 with the bad places of FF 14 ...?
11 There are parts that I imagine based on the story that I heard that I have never done ...

As a specific problem ... In Eureka it is necessary to keep hunting many enemies, but the enemies are tough overall.
In the case of FF 11, it was not necessary to input commands frequently, but in FF 14 it is necessary to continue inputting frequently, so defeating many hard enemies does not match the battle system of FF 14.
Even if you struggle to defeat a lot of hard enemies, dropping and experience values ​​were fine in FF 11, but Eureka is almost equal to none, to say honestly that drops and experience values ​​are troublesome.
In other words, the effort required by players is greater than FF 11 to keep keystrokes on end, but the return is less than FF 11.
I think that it is a problem."

根本的な部分を見直さずにただ「ザコを沢山狩れ」と言われても
「疲れるしパッドは摩耗するしやってられねえ」ってなる気もするんですよね…

"Even if it is said that "just hunt Zako a lot" without reviewing the fundamental part
"I get tired and the pad wears and I can not do it" I feel like it will ..."

レベル上げ→異常なポイントを発見したわ→回収する→調査しておくわ→そしてまたレベル上げのループが非常に単調ですね。
やっとクエスト進めれると思ったら薄い内容のストーリーが多いしですし。

ノの民を好ましくないと思うなら雑魚の経験値もう少し上げるならチェーンボーナスを増やすとかは欲しいところですね。
あとノックボックスの数は明らかに渋くしてますし全体的にアネモス編のほうが楽しかったなという感想になりました。

"Level up → I found an abnormal point → I collect → I will investigate → And the level raising loop is also very monotonous.
I think that it will finally be a quest and it will be a lot of story with a thin content.

If you think that the people of No are not good, if you raise the experience value of a small fish a bit, you would like to increase the chain bonus.
The number of the other knockboxes obviously became astringent, and it became the impression that it was fun all over Anemos edition."

ボックス少なくしたのは100歩ってイイとして
その少ないボックスから花火や花びらが出るって何なんでしょうか?
開発の皆さんは本当に前のエウレカで何も学んでないのでしょうかと思ってしまうぐらいがっかりしました

"As few as 100 steps can be used as a box
What is it like fireworks and petals come out from that few boxes?
I was disappointed that everyone in the development really thought that I did not learn anything in the previous Eureka"

アネモスで結局FATEゲーじゃんって言われて雑魚狩りに寄せたのはまあわかるんですが
その雑魚狩りがあまりにもまずい…こんなん格上30チェの２～３回で1レベル上がってもいいと思うんですが実際はゲージの1/3がいいとこ
ウサギについてはもう書かれてますがほんと酷い、普通にNM倒して経験値０どころかアネモスからさらに密度を上げた超危険地帯を通らせて下手するとマイナス
しかもPT内でバラバラになるって…これが同じ場所ならまだ許せた
これみよがしに常時発生してていらだたせるし、もうこれ不幸のウサギだよｗデザインも虫っぽいし
それと雑魚が何も落とさないんならもうチェーンのドロップアップアイコン消してください、変異が落とすとかはいいんで

"It is quite understandable that it was posted to the fish hunt after being told that it is FATE in the end at Anemos
The fish hunting is too bad ... I think that it may be possible to raise the level by 2 to 3 times of 30 Chep up to now, but in fact 1/3 of the gauge is good
About rabbits are already written, but it is really terrible, if you defeat NM normally and you pass through a super danger zone that got even higher density from Anemos than experience value 0, you will get negative
Besides, it will be falling apart in PT ... I could still forgive you if this is the same place
It is irritated at all times, and it is irritating and it is this rabbit of this unhappy w The design is also like an insect
Also, if the small fish does not drop anything, please delete the chain's drop-up icon already, it's OK if the mutation falls off"

And just to prove a point of how they feel -

FF14のシステムで雑魚狩りして楽しいわけがないとずっと思っています。
旧来のMMOの雑魚狩りの何が楽しかったかって
・レベルを上げることによって新スキル・新装備が手に入るという目標とそれを試す楽しみ
・キャラクターの育成方向に自由度があり、特定の狩り方に特化したキャラを育てる
・雑魚敵からのレアアイテム直ドロップがあり、常に期待感を持ちながら戦える
あたりだと思うんですが、FF14にはどれも無い（というかあえて切り捨てた）ものです。
また、PCの性能がフラットで同時に敵の性能もフラットであるため、PTだからこの敵・ペアだからこの敵を狩ろうという選択もありません。

敵が硬すぎる、指が疲れるというのは、他のゲームもなんだかんだ相当ボタン数は押してるとは思うのですが
要するに雑魚狩りに爽快感が皆無ということですね。
FF14の基本WS・魔法回しはやって当たり前、他ゲームの感覚でいうと「スキルを使用する」というよりもむしろオートアタック的なものです。
リキャスト1～2分のバフが帰ってきたときだけバースト用の回しに変えてちょっとだけ気持ちよくなります。
これは雑魚狩り中心で遊ぶにはあまりにテンポが悪いです。
こんなシステムなので雑魚が柔らかくなってもこのゲームの雑魚狩りは楽しくなりません。
だってSモブ沸かせのトリガー雑魚狩りも面白くないですから。

アネモスはかなり籠もりましたがNM巡りが楽しかったからで雑魚狩り自体は苦痛でした。
高レベルNM沸かせはリポップ時間や天候をみて恐らく沸くだろうという期待と目標でなんとかなりました。
パゴスも全体のELが底上げされNM沸かせが活発になればある程度楽しめるようになるのかな、と思いますが
いかんせん序盤は回れるNMが少ないので辛いですね。

"I always think that there is no fun hunting fish in the FF 14 system.
What was fun with traditional MMO's fish fish hunting
· The goal of acquiring new skills and new equipment by raising the level and the fun of trying it
· There are degrees of freedom in the direction of breeding of characters, and growing characters specialized for a specific hunting style
· There is a direct drop of rare items from small fish enemies, you can always fight with expectation
I think that it is around, but FF 14 has none (truly truncated).
Also, since the performance of the PC is flat and the performance of the enemy is flat at the same time, since it is this enemy / PT, there is no choice to hunt this enemy.

The enemy is too hard, my fingers get tired, I think that other games also somewhat like comparing the number of buttons
In short it means that there is no sense of refreshing for hunting fish.
Basic FS 14 WS · Magic spinning is a matter of course and it is rather natural rather than "skill use" rather than "other skills" in other game senses.
Recast Only when a buff back of 1 or 2 minutes comes back it turns into a burst turn and makes it a little pleasant.
This is too bad tempo to play at the center of small fish hunting.
Even if the small fish becomes soft like this system, this fish hunting of this game will not be fun.
Because it's not fun to f*** funny fish triggering trigger.

Anemos pretty much caught it, but it was a pleasure to visit NM, so the hunting of small fish itself was painful.
High level NM boiled down with the expectation and goal that it probably will boil when looking at lipop time and weather.
I think that Pagos will be able to enjoy it to a certain extent if the EL of the whole is raised and the NM boiling becomes active
Since the early stage NM is small, it is painful."

They too miss the NM Train.

[BillyKaplan]

Hearing even the Japanese playerbase dislikes it gives me hope, but not too much. As it stands, while I enjoyed the FATE train in Anemos, I think I'll join the crowd who sits Pagos (and therefore subsequent sagas until they are nerfed) out. And this is coming from someone with numerous Anemos weapons and gearsets :\

[AxlStream]

"It's not the content that is awful, it's the players playing it wrong." - Yoshida on the next live letter

[Raven2014]

One thing I noticed in the last few days is how this system fragmented the player base:

- The NM train is nefted, so this leads to people have to chain grind for lvl. Now this can be argued it's the way meant to be played, but there are a couple issues with this.

+ You want to kill the highest lvl of mob your lvl allowed, and right now it's 5lvl above (for tank) and 6lvl above (for DPS) for optimum return. The exp gain killing just one lvl higher mobs is too significant for such a long grind to be ignored.
+ And to keep up the chain, you need everyone to be just within 1lvl below or above. I.e 24-25, 29-30 ...etc... more and it's not worth it for the higher level, and less means you're dragging the party down.


So this system is even more restrictive, harsher than the old open world FATE system in ARR. At least with the old NM train, people are more tolerated toward level difference, hell I even saw people trying to accommodate lowbie to get them up to speed. But Pagos system now only encourage people to be as ruthless as possible. Can't blame the players, the system specifically make you play like that.

https://imgur.com/a/YzL8N1k

For example, right now there are 8 different group for different level range all unfilled. (One is mine, and we're been there for 30min).

[Fawkes]

For example, right now there are 8 different group for different level range all unfilled. (One is mine, and we're been there for 30min).

Oh, I guess they actually did do a good job of recreating the classic FFXI leveling experience.

[Alkimi]

Oh, I guess they actually did do a good job of recreating the classic FFXI leveling experience.

Well at least FFXI had level sync to remove this problem somewhat.

[Fawkes]

Well at least FFXI had level sync to remove this problem somewhat.

Not originally, that's what I meant by classic.

[Raven2014]

you know ... the more I keep hearing people saying Eureka is like FFXI, it kinda makes me glad I was playing WoW/GW2 during that time and missed the boat.