So, how is Pagos?

[InkstainedGwyn]

Every time I go into Pagos, the # of people in the instance is <100. I'm getting the same reports from others. I'm sure there's folks that like it but unless they do speak up, and unless I see some evidence otherwise, I'm going to continue to believe that they're in the minority. XIV's whole premise was that it was ultra-accessible to casuals. Like it or not, they've espoused this from the beginning. This is supposed to be content for the general playerbase (an alternative to savage and extreme); if the majority of the general playerbase doesn't like it, it's not a success.

[Hamada]

And let's not forget that you had the entire pool of players to build parties with, and multiple jobs at different given levels which extended the possibilities a great bit.

We have a pool of 144 people and the instances make absolutely no effort to distribute players by level or in any meaningful way. 144 sounds like a lot, but when every player has exactly one elemental level (as opposed to XI and even outside Eureka where every job is leveled individually), you get one shot to be within level range of any other given person before either they outlevel you or you outlevel them.

SE just doesn't think ahead which is baffling, considering they had 15 years of this to learn from.

That is what I was talking about when I said "Also note it worked better in the past because it had a way higher population at any given point."

[ForctyusGold]

i maybe told that , but ! its so bad place and bad instance ! who could invest their time to make this thing ? im just done with that farming xp from mobs, which you need kill so many ! there is no invence and i doubt in japanese , how they were creative after i saw this thing , its just really avoidable for many players, do you want that SE? its just from one extreme do another extreme, how i now love Anemos

[InkstainedGwyn]

The relic isn't and should never be geared towards "a specific set of people". The relic has always been for the general population. I have no problems with there being a grindfest for people who enjoy grindfests, just as I have no problem with there being Ultimate for the harder-than-extreme players, PVP for those that enjoy it (whether or not XIV's PVP is effective is beside the point), glamour options, crafting, gardening, chocobo races, housing, and all of the other elements that are enjoyed more by one group than another. However, the primary "goal" of FFXIV is to progress in PVE. To get the best weapon, you have to either do savage/EX trials, or the relic. This is a "general population" element, and the "general population" does not like Pagos. They've also locked several other items - crafting materials, an emote, minions, housing items, and other objects - behind this grind. Will they be on the MB at some point? Some will, some won't. For the pieces that are bound, you're screwed. For the others, you have to hope that someone will eventually sell it. And a week after Pagos was released, we haven't even had one of the Shiver emotes put up on our MB.

Had Eureka been a side release such as Ultimate, I wouldn't have cared, even if they'd put a separate set of rewards and goals in that are not the relic. I'm not even against a slog, as I'm still working on several animas and an original relic - but the nice thing about those is that I'm not having to rely on others' goodwill to do them. Nobody else in my party has to be grinding their relics for me to progress in mine. I don't want to take away your toy, I just want to not be forced to do it for mainstream content in a game that has never before embraced this kind of content, and is not the norm.

[Zsolen]

The Lighthouse upgrade is for 'the general population' that doesn't want to grind or do relic.

[Vnolan]

Pagos is fine as is if you're going for one relic weapon. It remains to be seen how it'll look if you want more than one.

Players reached lvl 35 around two days after the content was released and I saw a few relics over the weekend, and this was done when more than 95% of the players were at a low level, meaning fewer NMs would be spawned, and when spawn conditions were not known (spawn conditions are still being worked out).

Mobs that mutate or adapt give a x2.5 bonus. The 30th kill in a chain gives a x5 bonus. The entirety of a 30 chain is equal to killing 55 mobs. In the 30's, you get around 3.5k per mob, which translates to 200k exp with no mutations, no exp potion and no fairy exp bonus taken into account. If you get a mutation on chain 30, that kill alone would give 40k. Mutations/adaptations don't revert if aggro is reset, allowing you to save one for a chain 30 kill if you get it early in the chain.

A chain of 30 in a party of eight at five levels below the mob takes 15-20 minutes and you only need decent dps for the last part of the chain. If that's too long, you can always do +4 mobs or lower. Don't want to chain mobs? You don't have to. You can afk and wait for NMs, though you won't progress anywhere near as fast as those that grind, which is how it should have been in Anemos.

Because chaining mobs is a thing again, the fairy has use, since it gives a 10% exp buff (doesn't apply to NMs) and an increase in damage dealt.

In Anemos, there was no reason to kill any mobs but those that spawned the NMs. Mutations and adaptations change that. In Anemos after the first few days, dying meant sitting there and waiting for a res. Sleeping dragons, the map layout and chaining means getting a res isn't as sure a thing.

There are complaints about it being boring, but what are the suggestions? "Buff this, nerf that"

There are complaints about the exp grind, but it's the light portion that's the real grind.

Issues with Pagos at the moment are the lack of a sync function, kills having a small chance of not registering and to a lesser extent, AoEs on snow during heatwaves being a little difficult to see.

Buffs and nerfs aren't so simple. If they implement them, it would be an insult to the players that did the content early. The content will be nerfed in the future, for sure, but in a few months, not when the content is a week old. It would set a bad precedent: Don't like the grind? Go to the forums and complain until it gets reduced.

[Deceptus]

The entirety of a 30 chain is equal to killing 55 mobs. In the 30's, you get around 3.5k per mob, which translates to 200k exp with no mutations,

And in your 30's you need millions of exp to level so you're doing that chain at least 10 times. That's 300 mobs for a level. Not exactly great gameplay.

A chain of 30 in a party of eight at five levels below the mob takes 15-20 minutes

So between 2 and 3 hours of constant, mind numbing fighting for a level. Non.Stop.Fighting.

You can hear the bones and tendons in your hands and your migraine begging you for a break.

[Vnolan]

constant

I don't think that word means what you think it means. 10 chains would be with zero NMs. Contrary to what the forums have been saying, they aren't that rare. It's more likely several of those chains will be interrupted by a NM, and it's still the early days. And that's only if you wanted a more efficient method. You're free to do nothing if you want.

[Lumis_Arvalo]

Contrary to what the forums have been saying, they aren't that rare.

As someone who has been in numerous Pagos instances every day since it's release and having experienced 80-90 minute gaps between NM spawns in nearly all of them...

...yes, they are.

[Souljacker]

And in your 30's you need millions of exp to level so you're doing that chain at least 10 times. That's 300 mobs for a level. Not exactly great gameplay.

So between 2 and 3 hours of constant, mind numbing fighting for a level. Non-Stop Fighting.

You can hear the bones and tendons in your hands and your migraine begging you for a break.

And that's only providing you even get into a party of people all with ideal level ranges, get to camp alive, and everyone stays to play for that entire time. This game isn't designed for that kind of leveling and the playerbase isn't used to it. In XI we would actually plan to be in a party for a minimum of an hour after getting to camp and would actually look for our own replacement if we had to go and the party was going to continue. It's really crazy how SE has completely forgotten how it even worked.

Or *why* it worked, for that matter. It worked in XI because the process was a lot slower and more forgiving, and camps weren't nearly as crazy dangerous to get to as they are here. No seriously, they weren't. About the hardest camp to get to was probably the camps where you went through true sight Imps, but even then they were placed carefully and with forethought so a little patience got you to your party.

NONE of that is present here. Every single mob is true sight\sound because there's no stealth spells or meds, and the pathing is so random there is absolutely no way they didn't purposely program it to hurt the exploration experience. That's not what we remember from XI. At least, it's not what *I* remember.

I remember making my way through Konschadt Highlands carefully through the goblin patrols and the occasional ram pop. I remember the bats in the tunnel in the dunes that aggroed to sound, and normally some high level was wandering around and would kill them. Or with some careful planning I could kill them myself at around 16-17 depending on job. Same thing over in Qufim Island - The Dancing Weapon was about the most dangerous thing there on your way through and it could be stealthed through but usually someone was there to help kill it. And it stayed dead for a really long stretch. There wasn't much at all dangerous in the jungles because we could hop on the chocobo there at Kazham. The camps in Garliage were all easily accessible and didn't need any stealthing - not even the bottom floor camps that were alternative to the Nest (and that was super easy to get through too). The camps in Aht Urgan were all easy to access, especially once you got all the runic portals. I think that Mt. Zhayolm was my fav place to go - I liked the crawlers up there.

I'm really stretching my memory here but I can't think of a single camp that is anywhere near the level of unforgiving with mob placement, spawns, or terrain as this new map. So like, this idea that it's some throwback to an earlier time just isn't accurate, or other people have a very different memory of how leveling and getting to camps actually was in XI.

It was a relaxing experience. It wasn't a freak out stress getting to the camp every time (first time is always exciting, but here in Pagos it's just stress EVERY time), it wasn't a freak out because other parties would try to mpk you because 6+ groups are all camped on top of each other and competing (at most we'd have 2-3 parties at a camp and very rarely did we go out of our way to hurt one another's xp), and there wasn't this expectation that you never. stop. moving. for. a. single. moment. because of a GCD. Most of all, people *stayed*. They *stayed* in the party. And if they had to go, they generally gave notice. Here? Folks just drop and you're lucky to even get a courtesy "thanks for pt".

This game wasn't designed to handle this kind of play. It's why we didn't do it in Anemos. It's why rather than even play Pagos, I logged out for the last three days and cancelled my sub. It's why this particular iteration of the content is doomed to fail.

XI was a great game. I wish we could see more of what made it great come over here. I do NOT want this dev team's interpretation of it. They don't have a clue about their own game.