So, how is Pagos?

[Rokke]

Slightly increasing chain times would help some (so people can type), but lowering HP hurts the grind. Some people want to grind. There is a great deal of old school mmo nostalgia that goes with it. It goes back to a time where you only join a group, when you know you have a least an hour to play. 2 hours was the average. They don't comment on the forums, because they don't want to deal with the hate they could receive. It's an echo chamber in here. The last thing Pagos needs is a nerf.

You still need 31 crystals to finish a single weapon. Shaving some health off mobs wouldn't make people finish their relics in 10 seconds.

[TaleraRistain]

Some people want to grind. There is a great deal of old school mmo nostalgia that goes with it.

And some don't. If this was some optional zone where people want to go back to 1999 and do their thing, then fine. But they tied our relic to it. That's the biggest issue. We have no choice but to do content we hate.

[Zsolen]

And some don't. If this was some optional zone where people want to go back to 1999 and do their thing, then fine. But they tied our relic to it. That's the biggest issue. We have no choice but to do content we hate.

It's a relic. It's shouldn't be just handed over.

[Nixxe]

It's a relic. It's shouldn't be just handed over.

Nobody is asking for it to just be handed over. They're asking for it to not be tied to content nobody would ever do otherwise because it's so badly designed and thoroughly unengaging.

[AlphaSonic]

It's a relic. It's shouldn't be just handed over.

It's a game. We should be mildly entertained at least.

[Ayer2015]

It's a relic. It's shouldn't be just handed over.

I mean, the devs could tie it to content that is actually fun and engaging. You know a game being fun and not a total chore.

[Kaonis]

It's a relic. It's shouldn't be just handed over.

No one asked for it to be handed over. That's a strawman fallacy. What people are and have asked for is engaging content so the grind isn't soul crushing. Eureka has been nothing but a grind for grinds sake.

It is not badly designed at all, though. You just don't like it. Funny how a small part of the people (all on the forums) want content to 100% focus on them, aside from raid content. If it doesn't focus on them, it must be bad!

But it is bad content. Objectively bad. It is quite literally an endgame zone that exists solely for you to grind trash mobs to level up to grind more trash mobs to eventually be able to grind trash mobs for a relic. It is low effort design by literal definition. The leveling grind exists to pad the grind out without offering any meaningful progression.

[HyoMinPark]

It's a relic. It's shouldn't be just handed over.

Literally no one is asking for the developers to just hand a relic weapon to them. They’re asking for the content it’s tied to, to not be mind-numbingly unengaging. They’re asking for progression in Pagos to not feel so tedious, and like you aren’t getting anywhere even after hours of chaining mobs (this is also a complaint JP players have had).

My biggest complaint was that, after 6 hours, I was still only level 22 (Challenge Log did that mostly, btw), my hand/wrist was aching from spamming a combat system that mob chaining just does not work with, and I was still nowhere close to level 23 by the time I left. I’d only participated in 4 NMs (Snow Queen twice, and Ash Dragon and Taxim once).

People can hate on the NM train all they want, but at least in Anemos, players had the option to chain mobs if they wanted, and others had the option of the NM train if mob-chaining wasn’t their thing—I frequently saw people doing both. In Pagos, it’s “chain mobs because we didn’t like the NM train and tried to destroy it, sorry not sorry”. That’s not content I enjoy, and I’m just flat out not participating in the relic for the rest of Stormblood at this rate. Or waiting until it’s nerfed so hard I can get it for glamour—which is all it’s good for for me anyways, because I raid and have access to the i375 weapons.

Inb4 I’m told I just want things easy, I did 2 Anima relics before ANY of the steps were nerfed in HW, a third with half of the steps not nerfed (Umbrite beyond, though I didn’t finish it because I didn’t like the final look of the WHM relic), and I went back and did SCH and PLD not too long after 4.0 was released. I also work on 3 ARR relics when I’m bored (BRD, WHM, SCH). For current relics, I have all 15 Anemos weapons, and am over 50% done on getting all the Anemos gear sets. I’m not one to shy away from putting effort into things when I feel like my effort is being rewarded—but I don’t feel that way in Pagos.

[Alleo]

It's a relic. It's shouldn't be just handed over.

Its kinda funny because the HW relic took me longer than the Anemos one did..so you kinda got it more handed over with Eureka..also the relic was always the casual weapon. This meant grinding but a grind that was possible for casuals. Pagos just means that someone needs hours per day to get a small amount of progress and hope to not die because than all of this is lost. Honestly I dont feel like this is a good way for casuals..you are not able to do anything else in the game while there and need how many hours to complete it.

Another big problem I see with Eureka is that you always need the older ones to get into the new one. So if they somehow manage to do a fine version on the last one people still need an ungodly amount of hours to go through three older ones before they can try the newest one. Thus they will fall back and might have problems even leveling in the older ones. The challenge log is a good start for helping to catch up but its only weekly and its still quite a bit of time. With Diadem 2.0 one could at least start there right away and did not need to go through Diadem 1.0 first.

[TaleraRistain]

It's a relic. It's shouldn't be just handed over.

And the previous weapons weren't. You worked for them. But you had a variety of ways you could put in that work. It kept things fun and flexible and eased the tedium of the grind.

That's the thing these developers don't understand about implementing these EQ era concepts. You need ways to ease the tedium of the grind. We had plenty of time to joke around and socialize and be silly in our groups while waiting for the puller to get back when I played EQ. We bickered or debated in zone chat. We played /gems while medding. All those things eased the tedium of the grind. I hated Anemos with a passion, but at least the shout chat was fun.

This set up does nothing to ease the grind and develop a welcoming community. The social aggro and mob placement in the environment is too hazardous to be the hero and rescue someone with a raise. You can't dare pause for a second in groups because the chain falls off way too fast. And while there was a problem in Anemos with not waiting on NM pulls, it's multiplied by 1000 in Pagos.