So, how is Pagos?

[SunAurel]

If only the dev team would stop having their head up their ass and listen to the NA/EU community for once.

What is Pagos supposed to do? At the end we are gettin a weapon only good for glamour because most of us either have the Diamond Weapons or the upgraded Tomestone weapons. Then we also have the Tsukuyomi and the HoH Weapons who also have a quite passable ilvl.

A casual player - let's say someone who does not do Savage Raids - already has the upgraded tomestone weapon. They are casuals. They don't want to spend 6 hours a day getting carpal tunnel syndrome for a weapon that is only barely better than the one they already have because they play the game CASUALLY

SE, when we said GLAMOUR IS THE TRUE ENDGAME this was NOT what we meant!

I work full time and I took a week off when Pagos came out and after a week of playing more than average I am only around lvl 24. And I did the whole ideal exp grind + challenge log in a group thing.

But that was my week off. Next week when I have to work I'll only have time to play around 2-3 hours a day at max and I am not the only one that has that problem because we fall behind MASSIVELY. Pagos actively discourages you to help lower level players out because you get such a huge penalty for having someone who does not optimal damage or is a few level lower as yourself. ELevel did not really mean anyhting in Anemos because the Fate Train - while flawed - provided you with a good way to catch up, socialize, have some sort of fun, and work together with other groups. Pagos is just...mob grinding.

I'll repeat what I said in another thread. Pagis is not Difficult. Pagos is very easy. Pagos is mind numbingly easy. The only thing that makes it 'hard' is finding the time in your life to do it for a piece of glamour that might look good in a later stage because stat wise it will be obsolete in a few weeks.

Whoever designed Pagos, whoever sanctioned it, and whoever thought this was a good idea needs to sit down and grind in that bulls*** for hours only to die trying to make their way to a fate and have NO ONE come to rez them because everyone needs to keep their chains or else they'll lose their progress. Then they should have to respawn and delevel, losing all the progress they made in those hours.

It's not fun. I pay for fun. I pay for a challenge, that's why people love savage raids. They are challenging, fun, and offer an adequate reward. Pagos is easy, unfun, LONG, and just EXTREMELY PUNISHING with no sense of progression

How to make it better?

- Get rid of the death penalty, seriously.
- Increase the NM spawns to make a FATE train possible
- For the next part of Eureka MAKE THE WEAPON ACTUALLY WORTH GETTING OUTSIDE OF GLAMOUR
- include daily quests
- Don't make it punishing if you help other players out.

[MageBlack]

Still enjoying Pagos. I find it interesting though, all the things that people are complaining about are the reasons why i like it.

"Too long of a grind" its really not that bad. I've only gone in there three times and i gain a level each time i get in and i'm only there for about an hour. I'm as casual as it comes and i'm having no issues getting exp. I think the problem is people are trying to do the NM train like they did in Anemos and it just doesnt work that way. Get an exp party and farm your Challenge log, if an NM spawns, break camp, participate, then go back. This is how Anemos SHOULD have been.

"its boring" I find it a great chance to practice my rotations, try and enhance my DPS, socialize, and I have never seen the limit break used as much as its used in here, thats pretty cool. yeah, it can be a little monotonous but the same thing can be said of all content in this game. At least here i'm present during the fights, gotta be on the look out for strays that come in cause you dont want to die and lose exp.

"Death penalty sucks!" Good! it is supposed to suck to die. Its not that big of a deal anyway since it is so busy in there, someone can always come raise you. makes it so you dont really want to stray too far from the group.

This is not to say that there isnt room for improvement.

Some people mentioned "they said you could solo" that is an issue, you should be able to solo for decent exp based on level and time to kill it. its more cost effective to get a chain party but you should be able to do it on your own to some degree. I tried to solo the mandys just out the gate and it slayed me uber fast.

Party level sync is desperately needed. I have a few friends that might be more inclined to join if we could party together but our eLev's are so out of whack its not effective at all to do that.

Could be more mysteries, other spawn mechanisms, maybe some kind of open world dungeon to fight your way through, among other nifty suggestions. But looking at this content compared to other side content they added, (LoV, Squadrons, GC rank, Ventures, Guildhests, Diadem, etc) Eureka and Deep Dungeon are the only content beyond the dungeon grind that Ive played and enjoyed. Just like anything though, dont burn yourself out on it.

[Maleficent]

The gameplay of Pagos is really old school. Pre-dating WoW / FFXI
Back when leveling was only achievable from exp killing mobs.
Dying resulted in lost exp coupled with the complimentary corpse run, risking dying again (and again and again as rez points were in town and required you to run back through zones of aggro mobs with whatever spare gear). No fast travel.

You had to rely on others heavily - escorting you to your corpse, class with teleportation skills, borrowing spare gear, grouping up to grind using skill 1, 2, X and rinse and repeat.

Pagos is nostalgic for me but it's debatable whether it works in 2018 in an MMO ^ ^; I enjoy it in modest doses primarily due to having played games through that bygone era. It's like handling a Walkman.

[Nixxe]

The gameplay of Pagos is really old school. Pre-dating WoW / FFXI
Back when leveling was only achievable from exp killing mobs.
Dying resulted in lost exp coupled with the complimentary corpse run, risking dying again (and again and again as rez points were in town and required you to run back through zones of aggro mobs with whatever spare gear). No fast travel.

You had to rely on others heavily - escorting you to your corpse, class with teleportation skills, borrowing spare gear, grouping up to grind using skill 1, 2, X and rinse and repeat.

Pagos is nostalgic for me but it's debatable whether it works in 2018 in an MMO ^ ^; I enjoy it in modest doses primarily due to having played games through that bygone era. It's like handling a Walkman.

I'd honestly be OK with an insane mob grind if 1) mobs were more like WoW mobs, especially back in vanilla or BC, where they dropped money and had a chance to drop rare and valuable items so that each mob could feel rewarding per se; 2) the entire setup didn't discourage me from helping other groups that need a res because I can't sacrifice my own group's XP to help; and 3) the chain wasn't so tight so that we could actually take time and talk without screwing ourselves. The way it's setup now basically encourages group play with zero socialization, as well as actively discourages people from helping others. These are horrible design outcomes in any MMORPG.

[Liam_Harper]

The gameplay of Pagos is really old school. Pre-dating WoW / FFXI
Back when leveling was only achievable from exp killing mobs.

The biggest difference between those old-school grinds and Pagos is that in the old games your rotation boiled down to auto-attack and one or two abilities and it was fairly chill. In Pagos your rotation demands 40-60+ apm and your dps needs to be on-point because you have a tight chain timer that can't afford to be broken. There's no time for breaks, chatting in typing or anything else.

Pagos is far more demanding than old school games.

[TaleraRistain]

The gameplay of Pagos is really old school. Pre-dating WoW / FFXI
Back when leveling was only achievable from exp killing mobs.
Dying resulted in lost exp coupled with the complimentary corpse run, risking dying again (and again and again as rez points were in town and required you to run back through zones of aggro mobs with whatever spare gear). No fast travel.

You had to rely on others heavily - escorting you to your corpse, class with teleportation skills, borrowing spare gear, grouping up to grind using skill 1, 2, X and rinse and repeat.

It's old school EQ camp and grind without the safe camp spots where mobs can be pulled to and crowd control abilities that made that style of play efficient. Oh yeah BLM has Sleep and WHM has Repose, but who lets those classes actually use those? It's AoE everything to death if you get extra mobs in Pagos.

This sort of chain pulling mass numbers of mobs was only possible in EQ because you had the enchanter class (and to a lesser extent bards) that could lock down 6 or 7 mobs for the party to mow down one at a time like an assembly line. Not to mention classes like shamans which could slow and weaken the mobs so the party could mow them down quicker.

I think those are VERY important factors that the devs completely ignored about this style of play. And they're essential for it to be successful.

[KiwiClothilde]

Pagos is painfull at low level, groups are not having any fun so it's hard to find a nice group for a long time in a nice mood.
Chaining mob rewards are awfully too low for the time you have to spend on these.

Anemos train was maybe a kind of hack, but that was way funnier to do.

It's the worst content (Diadem is second cause it's optionnal) i've played in the game since i play : 2014.

[Rufalus]

I like that Pagos made the community very vocal at least, even though it's majority negative feedback. I like reading through people's thoughts and ideas and experiences in the game.

Pagos is painfull at low level, groups are not having any fun so it's hard to find a nice group for a long time in a nice mood.
Chaining mob rewards are awfully too low for the time you have to spend on these.

It's the low level experience which is mainly where the problem lies. It's very slow and restrictive. I think at max level, people will begin to enjoy Pagos or at least find it much less painful. You can mount, use all teleport destinations, fight all NMs, be far less vulnerable to all enemies, explore more safely and above all you never need to do exp chaining again. You're just free to do as you please. NM train can happen since you'll mow down enemies which spawn NMs much faster when you're overleveled. You might even do the bunny stuff while waiting on Louhi weather, or just socialise. Most of the pain in eureka is repetitious exp chain farming to reach max level. It ends eventually, it's just long and painful to get there.

edit: with this is mind, I think it would have been better if the leveling portion was significantly faster. they can leave the item acquisition for weapon upgrades as a slow grind, but just let people level up faster so they don't feel hopelessly trapped in tedious exp farming for too long.

[Matrinka]

P - players
A - aren't
G - getting
O - out
S - satisfied

[Valgus_Garand]

So far for me the hardest thing in pagos is getting in a group and having that group last more then 30 min.