So, how is Pagos?

[Velhart]

Moreover, I want a response from the community team to know if they are listening or just ignoring us like always. They can respond within an hour to Rathalos questions, but mysteriously disappear for days on end when people are widely discontent. If SE hears that we hate it and decides to keep it as is, fine. Whatever. They can lose subs, idc. But I want to know that they DO hear it. Right now, all I imagine is the devs patting themselves on the backs oblivious to the fact the community views this worse than Diadem.

These are community team members, not the direct SE development team. So they can't immediately answer for you because their job is to give the feedback to SE, and then they will respond back, they translate it, then release it to the public. I am sure they take in feedback and send it to the team. The content just got released, so unless there is something game breaking or immediately not working, then they are going to be taking feedback and comparing how each region reacts to the content and release it then. They also have to take information from multiple sources besides the forums. We may hear from this if enough complaints, but getting a response back this quick is not a normal thing.

[jpmeyer]

Giving it a little thought, I have some ideas of how they could hotfix Pagos to make it more bearable. This is assuming that they aren't going to completely rework it (which, they should) but leave most of everything intact.

1. Increase NM Spawn Rate and Improve Chain Mob EXP.
2. Level Sync
3. Remove Death Penalty
4. Add Mounts.

I completely agree with all of these points especially #3. I wanted to casually explore Pagos, and take screenshots (as this is a huge part of the game for me) but I am unable to due to being afraid of deleveling due to death and people not raising me. Why would people break their endless chain grind to help raise someone at this point? With Anemos, everyone was in the "train" always helping others, and you only needed a few people to help kill monsters to spawn an NM. It encouraged people to work together and have fun in shout chat. Now this is no longer the case and outside of challenge log (which appears to taper off around level 23) I do not wish to return to Pagos until they add some kind of heavy nerf. Very disappointed in something that was supposed to be "casual side content".

[Claviusnex]

I completely agree with all of these points especially #3. I wanted to casually explore Pagos, and take screenshots (as this is a huge part of the game for me) but I am unable to due to being afraid of deleveling due to death and people not raising me. Why would people break their endless chain grind to help raise someone at this point? With Anemos, everyone was in the "train" always helping others, and you only needed a few people to help kill monsters to spawn an NM. It encouraged people to work together and have fun in shout chat. Now this is no longer the case and outside of challenge log (which appears to taper off around level 23) I do not wish to return to Pagos until they add some kind of heavy nerf. Very disappointed in something that was supposed to be "casual side content".

It isn't as much about breaking the chain but if they go to rescue you and die on the trip they have a high risk of being hit with the death penalty too.

[Tsumdere]

I wouldn't get your hopes too high. I don't know why or when or how but at some point, it seems, they decided it was no longer important to talk or listen to us. Having played since 1.0 Beta, watching how silent they've become is incredibly disappointing.

I know. I already have -0 hope they will respond, but you have to try at least? They should listen to us since NA is their biggest market iirc.

I want to like Eureka. It's why I keep going into Pagos despite me hating it every single time. I want them to make hotfixes to make it more bearable.

These are community team members, not the direct SE development team. So they can't immediately answer for you because their job is to give the feedback to SE, and then they will respond back, they translate it, then release it to the public. I am sure they take in feedback and send it to the team. The content just got released, so unless there is something game breaking or immediately not working, then they are going to be taking feedback and comparing how each region reacts to the content and release it then. They also have to take information from multiple sources besides the forums. We may hear from this if enough complaints, but getting a response back this quick is not a normal thing.

(Sorry for edit. This char has a 2 post limit per day until I level her up. Grr.)

I know that the community managers aren't the development team, but they absolutely 100% can write that they have informed the development team of our comments. See the Savage+ Dungeon thread. The only other game I have played that has such abysmal communication between the customers and the developers is TERA, and look how that turned out. Unfortunately on game forums, silence does come off as an answer and that answer is "we don't care".

[Kuroka]

Yet they ban for an "F-word" even if its not directed to someone, that always go first. But since the release we complain about the same things. And tbh, at least a party sync should be default, you can not sweet talk it. Just befrore i was in party 24-26, we killed mobs and the moment i hit 27, since the lowest still was 1/4 before 25 i got about 1k less exp... yeah right, so either I leave and get another party, leaving em with one member short OR kick the 24 wich spent all the time with us... kinda... tbh i noticed my self i started to think about not raisng other ppl and not wait with fates... playing like that kinda brings up the worst within me...

And i know we wont get that perfect hotfix that'll make it at least as ok as anemos, but at least some "we gathered your feedback and are delivering it to the devolpers" at some of those threads would help a lot..

[Berteaux_Braumegain]

Well, when Anemos came out, through a bit of casual grinding I was able to gain about five levels a day and hit Level 20 before the end of the first week.

I'm still on Level 24 in Pagos with the same time investment.

[Eight]

Easily the worst content this game has put out yet by far. Hard to get parties, no one helps with raises and the grind is ridiculous. I've been in Pagos several times and I've literally made almost no progress due to it being impossible to make any group work without it disbanding. Not worth it at all or at least I'll wait till it's nerfed but I'm not wasting my time with this garbage.

[LinXiaoMei]

Currently level 26. I'm fine with the mindless mob grinding and what not. I'm not okay with the crappy Light Farming and inconsistency of NM spawning rates (with / without a tracker).
The fact that 2 NM's give me 1/5th of a bar towards a crystal is pretty absurd with the way the rates are now. On top of that, we need 31 Frozen Protean Crystals total? With Anemos, I got in and out of that place in 2 days tops.
Here, lord knows how long I'll be. It took me 2 hours just for 1 light gauge to fill up. Odds are, I'll wait until its nerfed cause this is ridiculous. I'm honestly fine with grinding but not with rates worse than anything I've ever seen before.
Even more boring than Anemos to be honest.

[Vasala]

Well after this week of grinding I will say that the spawn rate of NMs needs to be greatly improved. Especially the ones which require specific weather or are spawned by mobs that require specific weather or night mobs. Yes the cave idea is neat but it makes it even more difficult to help someone if a death occurs. In Anemos people were pretty good about saving folk but in Pagos with the dependence on chain farming and the high risk of trying to get to some areas it seems like people are less willing to help if someone gets downed while exploring or trying to get to one of the very infrequent NMs. Since the point seems to be exploring with the bunnies after the grind to 35 it would be a very good idea to remove the death penalty completely. Just having to start over from base or one of the aetherites plus the loss of the bunny seems like a big enough penalty without having to strip a player of potentially hours of grinding as well.

Ultimately even though the train in Anemos was not the most exciting thing it was at least more fun than what we have going on in Pagos currently. It also appears that due to the way things work in Pagos that as soon as a group gets 35 and gets their Louhi drops they do not have any desire to help spawn him for anyone who missed the initial rush.

[KyegimyaAsura]

Personally I'm disappointed. As someone that wasn't into Anemos in the beginning, but got into it, thanks to people I know, I was personally excited for Pagos and further weapon upgrades even with disappointment over armor not being included initially.

The way Pagos is right now is 100% an invitation to carpal tunnel syndrome. As someone who experiences it, playing Pagos for even a short period is a test on me, so I can't handle much chaining before needing a break. The grinding aspect from XI that they clearly want here is not as welcomed. You can't compare the games, since XI's actions per minute were so incredibly minor compared to XIV it's ridiculous. That's why the NM train was good. Sure, it invited a lot of leeching via people AFKing until pops, etc, but it also promoted socializing while people gradually got to 20, if they weren't already there. With the NM trains, you also didn't have to worry about what makes chains the most tolerable: making sure everyone is as close to the same elemental level as possible, because it does not take much of a difference to make the EXP take a huge hit (IE: killing the level 28 worms with a level 24 in a 22-23~ pt, you'll lose quite bit of EXP per kill with minor differences in kill time if any). It's bad enough that there's literally no room for much (no socializing, etc) in chaining other than slowly killing each enemy within the timer.

To wit, if SE is so bent on making this the way to do things, there needs to be either:
1) a level sync feature that syncs you to a target party member (XI feature!)
or,
2) get rid of the EXP penalties and gaps altogether.
and regardless of what else they do,
3) NMs should spawn more frequently.
Since #2 is wishful thinking, I won't hold my breath over that one. Also, the issue where the chain can still reset with an active timer is also in need of fixing. Also, the EXP loss on returning from death is just horrible. That needs to stop. Pagos seems to have a toxic community in that regard. People would go out of their way to raise people in Anemos while they don't here. Yes XI had EXP loss, but it was capped at like 2,400 from a death! Losing over 200k (as seen from the user below my post) is just beyond awful. Anemos's friendlier environment made the EXP loss much less of a concern. I've read of a lot more people losing experience in Pagos in the first week than I did the entire time Anemos has been around!

tl;dr: Due to the NM train and frequency of pops (and people who would help with Raises), Anemos was good for people, Pagos is the polar opposite. You can't help any friends who are behind much, nor can you join any friends who are ahead much with the way gaining experience works in Pagos. It's mind-boggling. I have friends who don't even want to enter Pagos because it's such a grind fest...friends that I know would love to work on relics, but the grind turns them off so fast in a hurry and I totally get why.

The challenge log was a great addition when it happened during Anemos, as it encouraged some chaining while being rewarding. Sure, it was meant for catching up, but with the amount of experience needed to level from 20 to 35 which is significantly higher than I imagine anyone expected, it's clear that is now also lacking. Sure, at early levels in Pagos, it can get you a level and then some, but it likely won't take long until that's not the case, unless it scales by the EXP needed to level even more (spoiler: it most likely won't). Adding a third tier (or more, but trying to be realistic in what I hope for here) to each would help a bit more. With the absurd EXP requirements, I personally feel it's necessary.