So, how is Pagos?

[Liam_Harper]

I can't even bring myself to just do all the challenge log once a week. Got about halfway through and couldn't endure any more :l

[Deceptus]

I can't even bring myself to just do all the challenge log once a week. Got about halfway through and couldn't endure any more :l

Do them in Anemos. They're infinitely easier to complete because the mobs don't have inflated HP pools.

[Ilyrian]

So... this might be against the tide but I'm not totally against it.

I have a lot of issues with this game - a lot - but this, as a general bit of content I can almost see where they're coming from.

I have put a bit of time into it - and remember we are only talking about the first week - but I have seen some positives.

If playing to (in my opinion) the most efficient way; you are made to form groups and spend at least a few hours with them.

The Fate Train may be a thing (or at least its in the early stages) but ultimately you are put into the position to make alliances with strangers which, in my opinion, is not a bad thing. I have spent some good hours healing and even DPSing some mobs chains. Resing strangers, talking to people; things that I don't get blindly running the same DF dungeon daily.

If you are not a Savage raider - or even if you are - there is nothing to do in this game at this point. This at least provides something that, in theory, will last you for a bit.

Do I think it's great game design.. no. Do I think it's the best we have.. yup.

[Rokke]

Do I think it's great game design.. no. Do I think it's the best we have.. yup.

Mindless grinding being the best content we have is a accurate description of the current state of XIV.

[Aster_E]

Mindless grinding being the best content we have is a accurate description of the current state of XIV.

Hear, hear.

[BucklesTrespen]

I wish it weren't treated like a dungeon though. Can't access friend menu nor add people you meet in Pagos to friends. Really stupid.

[Raven2014]

The Fate Train may be a thing (or at least its in the early stages) but ultimately you are put into the position to make alliances with strangers which, in my opinion, is not a bad thing. I have spent some good hours healing and even DPSing some mobs chains. Resing strangers, talking to people; things that I don't get blindly running the same DF dungeon daily.

The thing is ... these things happen in Anemos already, Pagos actually discouraged that. If a party wants to play to efficiency, then you can't afford to "talk" while grinning.
- If the healer talks: the tank gonna die.
- If the DPS talk: they gonna lose the chain.
- If the tank talk: or mistime a pull, leading to lose a chain.
And pretty much everyone except the tank - who in tank stance with element set to defense - risk death if they type something longer than a sentence mid pull, because the ground AOE is very fast and pretty much oneshot everyone. And you can't afford to take a break without losing the chain. Playing to efficient right now in Pagos meaning most groups grinding are playing at a very thin margin, and allows very little mistake/screwing around. Skillwise not so much, but intensity wise, it can actually match savage content on release.


I talked about how the system fragmented players earlier, here is a few other example happens personally to me:

- Was with a group last night, had a good time, and simply because we ere productive. We got to lvl25-26 together, personally I got to 25. This morning I get to 26 myself, then tonight I saw the same PF, asking for 27-28 party. I joint and asked if they're ok with 26, they said no, and remember, these are people that had a good time together for a few hours just yesterday. Now I'm not accusing them of being selfish, in fact it was me who was being selfish for trying to ask in the first place, knowing full well I will dragging them back. So because I lag behind just one level, I have to find another group to play with.

- When you make things tough, it tend to bring out the jerk and toxicity in others. Again, right now most group have to set up specific elements in order to 'barely' keep their chain going, it means any deviation will result in big set back to even fatal. So if someone randomly walk in a mob to a group, especially if it's of a different element, it almost certainly will make the group lose their chain or worse, wipe the group if everyone react poorly. And again, this will make people toxic or salty. A group I was in was doing worm, so naturally our eleboard is set to that. During mid pull, a single player who was being chased by a lighting mob run into our group, probably in hope of having it tag to us to save himself. We survive, but also lost our 20+ chain when we had to kill that mob. That guy died anyway, right next to us. And the people in my group was so pissed that they told the group NOT TO RES THAT GUY, WHAT AN ARSE, LET HIM ROT ...etc... you know, the usual rage. We left him there for 5 mins, begging us to res him. Thanksfully eventually people calm down, I told them he was having a bunny tag along so probably one of those guy trying to find treasure. I'm pretty sure he still ran into us on purpose, but probably just honestly try to save himself instead of griefing. We res him, but did leave him with some choice word. Cooporation? Not really, again, in another group when we had a smaller group of people tagging our mobs, they were told to pissed off "our yard". In Anemos, you see players with mount don't mind grouping with lowbie starters for NM train, they even offer taxing people around on their double seaters. I'll tell you now, that ain't gonna happen in Pagos.


This is why not many people attempt Ultimate (I do btw), it's not only the skill question, but many static I know don't want to risk attempting in simply because they know it's very easy to become toxic in that environment. But that Ultimate, the hardest content in the game, so that's how it should be. The relic grind though, has always been traditionally casual content. It means to be a long haul, but it also meant to be you can relax, and chilling to do, it only take a long time. That's exactly what the NM train was, some day I log in, join the train, do something, banter ...etc... the kind of content you want to do after a stressful day at work. The question is ... what does SE want Eureka to be? Because if the goal is to make casual content feel like savage, then they have succeeded. And this is coming someone who has savage on farm and attempting ultimate

[Demafogotto]

That reminds me of an old saying how Yoshi hates relics as a concept of "grind this and you will get a weapon as good as people who did challenging content", especially after the Titan Hard backlash from casuals so he went "ok, endless grinding for you then".

Hence why the Eureka is actually an experiment of creating the most tedious, boring and unefficent grind ever, and how this was getting "delayed" so there would be no point in obsolete gear... unless a player in question doesn't do any EXes or Savage at all.

It is all a plan to make people go "mindless grinding is boring" and look to a more challenging content, just as Yoshi wanted to since he has been lamenting low savage participation rates ever since. Same reason why gear unlocks so late in the patch cycles, like weapon upgrades from 24-mans.

Yoshi wants you to hate relic grinding and do something else.

/tinfoil

[Ash_]

The fact that 4.4 is next month makes this worse. New raid/tome tier. By the time you have grinded yourself insane for the 370 relic, it's already worthless. And who knows when the next step will be to update it beyond that. Stormblood's relic is getting far too behind all the rest of the content of the game.

[Rufalus]

More thoughts: I wish the exp penalty was less, or you have a much longer timer in which to receive a raise. What happens if your internet drops and you die while disconnecting, and cannot log back in fast enough to receive a raise.

Also wishing there were no level requirements on activating aetherytes. It takes a long time to reach lv30/32 for the third and fourth aetherytes but you'll certainly want to travel to those areas many times beforehand since you can really benefit from fighting the enemies there (especially NMs) long before your level is enough to activate teleporting.