Physick on SMN

[Kurando]

snip

No one said that, don't make assumptions. I was merely highlighting the fact that RDM's current issue regarding low damage (which you mentioned) is about much more than it's utility, hell even that is lacklustre outside of progression. RDM still does less damage than BLM or SMN when it doesn't need to use Raise or Cure. You are saying that high damage dealers WITH utility should pay a price, that's exactly what you said.

Do you play RDM at all by the way?

[Dualgunner]

Yet SMN beats it on damage output and utility, so looks like there isn't a price to pay there huh? Maybe healer DPS should also be nerfed then considering how much utility they bring, after all they should pay a price as well surely...

Considering the strongest healer is still weaker than the lowest tier dps jobs by a wide margin, and the fact that healers themselves are intended to be balanced the same way (ie, whm highest pDPS and sch highest support, even if the minutiae denies it right now...) I'd say they already are?

[Dualgunner]

So you honestly imply utility should be 100% free of charge on a job... you can't be serious.
Do you actually play this game? Also rdm raise slave and pocket heals is more utility than smn, almost like there's some kind of reason every first clear this expansion has a rdm in the party right? They pay for that utility with dps loss.

Not to argue the point or anything but iirc world first uwu was a SMN.

[Zerathor]

No one said that, don't make assumptions. I was merely highlighting the fact that RDM's current issue regarding low damage (which you mentioned) is about much more than it's utility, hell even that is lacklustre outside of progression. RDM still does less damage than BLM or SMN when it doesn't need to use Raise or Cure. You are saying that high damage dealers WITH utility should pay a price, that's exactly what you said.

This is the classical point most smns today can never grasp
"When they don't need to use raise"
You don't get to have all the perks of being a full power dps cannon, while having emergency utility in your back pocket if it's needed. Smn is like that now, and it's very wrong.

Why? Alright, you have your final dps slot to fill and you want a caster. Do you want a blm, or a blm that can raise people? If physic becomes useful, and smn isn't taxed at all for it, it'll also be blm that can raise with some light heals if needed.

If all casters did equal damage, rdm would hands down be the strongest preferred.

[Zerathor]

Not to argue the point or anything but iirc world first uwu was a SMN.

My mistake on that. Still, rdm seems like the prog machine for savage and ult to get the learning phase down properly

[Kurando]

snip

Well you have two situations. One is the progression, which yes RDM is often welcome because of the utility, but confident healers are occasionally happy with SMNs well. Then two we have week clears/farms/parse runs etc, in this situation RDM although they can still be accepted, they are less likely to require Cure or Raise in parties that are experienced, therefore why take one when a SMN can do more consistent damage (and have rez if required) or even a BLM which although has no utility can bring a lot of power.

Suddenly you find that RDM is relegated for better picks, so why should any job only considered for progression more than anything else? That shouldn't be the case, hell you could have a MCH that doesn't need to touch Refresh or Tactician at all but they still would bring damage and other utility to make them viable. Of course no one is saying RDM should necessarily have more damage, but when certain parts of their kit is not required (Cure/Raise) they are suddenly not so special at all, and their damage STILL pales in comparison to others that do it much better.

[Genoreaper]

This thread is a joke, smn is arguably too strong for the utility it provides, yet people still want to push it forward like back when warriors could fully self heal, top dps charts and tank.

If anything due to having those utilities raise / emergency pet tank, a heal (albeit weak) they should get nerfed a bit. Because sure you may not use it but the fact that you CAN is something no other class can do aside from rdm which actually sticks to the whole more utility/less personal dps. Just Like bard. Blm doesn't have that option yet you guys are right on the same dps level as the "selfish dps turret".

You have utility to match rdm but more dps. Dps to match blm but more utility anyone who pretends this isn't an issue is being biased and ignorant.

In static prog smn has the spot for mobile damage, constant uptime with pet to beat out any learning blm since the ceiling is so high for blm they literally have to memorize the fight script to maximize damage and not move. You have the same utility as rdm in prog in raise which is hugely important more than a heal. Because you still have dots and pet attacks ticking away while you rez for more damage.
The only time you MAY get passed up is a random PF group planning on multimate wipes.

But no because a healer can heal you should to. You don't see whm askin for holy to be buffed to 400 pot or 680 like painflate and ahk mourn. You can already tank and dps, you don't need heals too.

Stop being selfish. If you want to play a solo god mode character that doesn't need a party play x, xii, or XV where you can build yourself to Pretty much do just that.

[Megguido]

This thread is a joke, [...] But no because a healer can heal you should to. You don't see whm askin for holy to be buffed to 400 pot or 680 like painflate and ahk mourn. You can already tank and dps, you don't need heals too. Stop being selfish. If you want to play a solo god mode character that doesn't need a party play x, xii, or XV where you can build yourself to Pretty much do just that.

I'm sorry, that's not how you spell PALADIN. PLD is the true solo god mode character. Unkillable, can deal very respectable damage, and heal themselves to full HP in a couple of GCDs. But guess what ? PLD have a 1200 potency heal aaaaaaand that doesn't make them broken because they use it as little as possible, since it comes at the cost of DPS.

Anyway, they won't boost Physick's healing on SMN, because dealing damage and healing people is RDM fantasy. And even if they do, it won't be better than a Vercure (spell that RDM mostly use to proc Dualcast anyway, not for the healing most of the time).

SMNs have the right to complain about Physick because they have a spell that is 100% useless once you go above lvl 20 or so. Physick is litterally 700 HP at lvl 70, even Drain restores more health and deals damage at the same time. Though they are not alone. RDM has Tether, WHM Repose, BLM Sleep, Blizzard I & II etc...
And IMO, SMN doesn't want Physick to heal a decent amount, they just want Physick gone out of their kit and replaced with something else.

But hey, this thread is going again the way "SMN IS BROKEN U DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO COMPLAIN, NERF IT TO THE GROUND REEEEEEE".

[Jandor]

If anything due to having those utilities raise / emergency pet tank, a heal (albeit weak) they should get nerfed a bit.

It's not just weak, it's completely useless.

Titan-Egi is also of very dubious usefulness in his current form.

If you'd actually leveled the job you'd know all this.

SMN should be nerfed because they have physick though, that's just, wow... definitely a fresh take at least lol.

But no because a healer can heal you should to. You don't see whm askin for holy to be buffed to 400 pot or 680 like painflate and ahk mourn.

You've said this 3 times now, it's not the amazing "gotcha" point you seem to think it is.

[wereotter]

SMNs have the right to complain about Physick because they have a spell that is 100% useless once you go above lvl 20 or so. Physick is litterally 700 HP at lvl 70, even Drain restores more health and deals damage at the same time. Though they are not alone. RDM has Tether, WHM Repose, BLM Sleep, Blizzard I & II etc...
And IMO, SMN doesn't want Physick to heal a decent amount, they just want Physick gone out of their kit and replaced with something else.

Not to mention Monks have been complaining about One Ilm Punch since forever as an utterly useless skill....

But here I have to side with what others have said, sure you can have your buff to Physick, but it should come at a cost to SMN DPS. At the point summoners get a potent heal, then they will have mobility, consistent damage, and high utility, more so than any other caster, and thereby should have the lowest personal DPS. Or, if the complaint is that it's useless, perhaps a level 30 trait for summoners should replace the skill on their hotbar with Sustain.