Physick on SMN

[Sunako]

I think it's less of NEED physic in a raid, and more of in extreme niche situations being able to pull off a very clutch save on somebody. I think it'd be a little too much given their current power already in dps, mobility, and having a raise.

It would be neat to see drain become useful though. But I'd be more in favor of making drain like a 5-10 second buff that gives spell vamp on your casts by like 20-30% maybe, with a 90-120s cool down. Even if it did 200-240 potency for blm in the way you described, blm would never use that for how heavy a loss that'd be in comparison to even a f1.

Well current drain heal around 5 -7% your max hp. If blm would have 240 potency drain it would heal 15 - 20% your max hp. If it would be any stronger than that I think it would be overpowered because it is spam able skill. You still not lose whole potency like physick does and have pretty good amount heal. You are not supposed spam drain, you use it only if you need desperately restore hp. I think it would be huge help for eureka or something like that kind of content. Maybe even raids during progress.

[Zyneste]

I think it's less of NEED physic in a raid, and more of in extreme niche situations being able to pull off a very clutch save on somebody. I think it'd be a little too much given their current power already in dps, mobility, and having a raise.

It would be neat to see drain become useful though. But I'd be more in favor of making drain like a 5-10 second buff that gives spell vamp on your casts by like 20-30% maybe, with a 90-120s cool down. Even if it did 200-240 potency for blm in the way you described, blm would never use that for how heavy a loss that'd be in comparison to even a f1.

Well current drain heal around 5 -7% your max hp. If blm would have 240 potency drain it would heal 15 - 20% your max hp. If it would be any stronger than that I think it would be overpowered because it is spam able skill. You still not lose whole potency like physick does and have pretty good amount heal. You are not supposed spam drain, you use it only if you need desperately restore hp. I think it would be huge help for eureka or something like that kind of content. Maybe even raids during progress.

Thats why I suggested removing drain as a DPS skill. Make it a 0 potency debuff on a target. Heal a % back of the damage you deal over a short amount of time. At 40% damage dealt returned as health over an 8 second period, a 5k DPS player can restore 16,000 HP. [16,000 of 40,000 over a ~10 second timer period, including the cast of the spell. Vercure heals about 9k per GCD as comparison] The % heal itself and the duration could be adjusted but I feel this is much better approach than Drain in its current state.

This keeps drain relevant, doesn't overshadow the perks of vercure and RDM's healing identity and doesn't change the role of the DPS anymore than a heal spell would.

Physick's overhaul would be to just make it a large chunk heal on pets only.

[Kurando]

snip

So essentially you want a magic version of Bloodbath for casters? I mean the reason melee have this action is because Second Wind is on a 2min cooldown so they need something else in-between. Drain on the other hand is weaker in a single use but can be used multiple times to get more results seeing as the only limitation is the MP cost.

Lore wise the spell Drain has always been a simple damage and take the exact back as HP formula. A caster version of Bloodbath would seem out of place.

[Zyneste]

So essentially you want a magic version of Bloodbath for casters? I mean the reason melee have this action is because Second Wind is on a 2min cooldown so they need something else in-between. Drain on the other hand is weaker in a single use but can be used multiple times to get more results seeing as the only limitation is the MP cost.

Lore wise the spell Drain has always been a simple damage and take the exact back as HP formula. A caster version of Bloodbath would seem out of place.

Its on a single target. Blood bath is a buff on you. AOE works with it well. Drain would be on the GCD, cost MP, have a cast time and be on a shorter duration. Casters also have less health and defense than physical DPS.

Blood bath costs you 0 DPS to use as an ability on the OGCD. Contrarily, Drain would cost you a GCD. You really have to make a choice between am I going to die or will I be wasting DPS? With bloodbath you just hit it. If you live because of it, Yay! If you wouldnt have died without it, no loss to your DPS.

The skills are similar in that the both return health, but if thats all you need for the spells to be the same, the current version of drain is just a copy of Energy drain without the MP restore or Storm's eye right?

I think its completly within the realm of FFXIV and its re-imaginings to use a spell like Drain in this way.

[Zerathor]

So essentially you want a magic version of Bloodbath for casters? I mean the reason melee have this action is because Second Wind is on a 2min cooldown so they need something else in-between. Drain on the other hand is weaker in a single use but can be used multiple times to get more results seeing as the only limitation is the MP cost.

Lore wise the spell Drain has always been a simple damage and take the exact back as HP formula. A caster version of Bloodbath would seem out of place.

Physical gets a heal that does nothing to interfere with dps. Casters get something that demolishes your dps, and really doesn't heal that well for it. Casting drain is just cancer in every aspect. Not to mention on jobs like blm, it horribly interferes with rotation. Lore is neat, but this is an mmo, and thus should be ballanced as such. Lore wise I should be able to cast death, and fire magic wouldn't effect fire elementals, and miasma/bio wouldn't effect non living like undead or machines.

[TaiyoShikasu]

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Literally the only solo content that matters is deep dungeons where chocobos aren't usable. Also the only solo clears to the highest floor in each is with red mage, but go off.

[Kurando]

snip.

Think you are still missing the part that Drain can be used multiple times in row (being only limited by MP), melee HP recovery actions however have cooldowns between uses. Sure it's a DPS loss in comparison but anything can mess up a rotation, not just one action which the player has compete control over to begin with. Using Physick/Vercure/Raise is a DPS loss as well, though it's not the end of the world if a BLM has to use Drain. Unless they are doing something that requires a optimal ongoing damage at all times, it's not that difficult to salvage their rotation if Drain is required. Also Bloodbath is pretty near to useless unless the player is within range of a target to attack, with situations when melee have to move about a lot, they may not always get the full benefit of the action.

Yes it's an MMO but it also has roles, why do we need to balance DPS to have better self healing when there are healers that can do it for us? Solo content there are NPCs to assist, companions or even sustaining items on a short cooldown. Should we just allow each job to be able to tank, heal and DPS all by themselves? Then what is an MMO if our only intention is to sustain ourselves and not rely on cooperation from fellow players. There is too much party-designed content to have such a solo-minded expectation of it.

Anyway this is all doing off topic. Back to SMN Physick...

[Zerathor]

snip.

I can assure you there's reasons no caster that actually does content use drain. The reasons being not only is it terrible dps loss, but it ruins rotations, which will cost even more dps.

Back to physic... the most meta caster in the game right now in both raid dps, that also has the ability to raise where needed, doesn't really need clutch emergency healing as well. Unless it involves losing damage potency, because there's a reason rdm damage is so low. It's because utility SHOULD have a price.

[Kurando]

Unless it involves losing damage potency, because there's a reason rdm damage is so low. It's because utility SHOULD have a price.

Yet SMN beats it on damage output and utility, so looks like there isn't a price to pay there huh? Maybe healer DPS should also be nerfed then considering how much utility they bring, after all they should pay a price as well surely...

[Zerathor]

Yet SMN beats it on damage output and utility, so looks like there isn't a price to pay there huh? Maybe healer DPS should also be nerfed then considering how much utility they bring, after all they should pay a price as well surely...

So you honestly imply utility should be 100% free of charge on a job... you can't be serious.
Do you actually play this game? Also rdm raise slave and pocket heals is more utility than smn, almost like there's some kind of reason every first clear this expansion has a rdm in the party right? They pay for that utility with dps loss.