State of the Game: Savage+ Dungeons and End Game Leves

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I don't want to be that guy, but this constant defending of this game in this forum is probably why this game hasn't improved in so long.

Agreeing to everything what the developers say and it's supposed "function" is not immune to criticism.

Also noticing certain individuals in here seem to be heavily involved in these forums...so how much they paying you?

Yes, the people suggesting Mythic+, parses, harder content and etc. are absolutely content with the status quo. The game hasn't improved from its stale progression because the devs scaled everything back. Taking out enrages won't make Savage better. It'd do the precise opposite—making it even easier.

[Remedi]

Third boss of ridorana badly screams to have an enrage timers to give some sense to the number mechanic idd just to give an example.

Also I don't think ppl are defending SE way, frankly dungeons needs a huge overhaul in more than one aspects

[KisaiTenshi]

Third boss of ridorana badly screams to have an enrage timers to give some sense to the number mechanic idd just to give an example.

Also I don't think ppl are defending SE way, frankly dungeons needs a huge overhaul in more than one aspects

I have criticisms about the game and SE, but the hostility in this thread to even brainstorm how it could work suggests that nobody wants to give it a serious consideration, and it's been proposed by the same people a few times. FFXIV is FFXIV, it's not going to grow by copying WoW, and WoW, makes a lot more QA mistakes than SE does by miles.

With 8.0, Blizzard introduced World of Warcraft’s second ever stat squish — where all the numbers in the game are lowered across the board for clarity. While it may make the game easier to read, it has caused some serious in-game problems. Since the patch, Blizzard has been throwing out hotfixes each day, fixing things that the stat squish either forgot to alter or simply broke.

Imagine for a moment a M+ feature for FFXIV that results in another Ungarmax. That's the kind of engineering mistake in FFXIV that can come from not testing things sufficiently. Let's say theoretically that any dungeon can become M+ by clearing it on minimum ilevel. Then it's discovered that you could clear level +20 by removing all your gear so the game naively sets the difficulty based on the entry gear stats being zero.

The way people in this game quickly attribute inaction from SE as "not a bug" is why I feel SE doesn't take risks.

[Sigma-Astra]

I don't want to be that guy, but this constant defending of this game in this forum is probably why this game hasn't improved in so long.

Agreeing to everything what the developers say and it's supposed "function" is not immune to criticism.

Also noticing certain individuals in here seem to be heavily involved in these forums...so how much they paying you?

Do you do nothing but snark in every single topic and make exceptionally rude and generalized statements? How much is the anti-XIV people paying you, good sir?

All you do is post opinions to provoke, nothing even remotely substanstial.

[Remedi]

I have criticisms about the game and SE, but the hostility in this thread to even brainstorm how it could work suggests that nobody wants to give it a serious consideration, and it's been proposed by the same people a few times. FFXIV is FFXIV, it's not going to grow by copying WoW, and WoW, makes a lot more QA mistakes than SE does by miles.



Imagine for a moment a M+ feature for FFXIV that results in another Ungarmax. That's the kind of engineering mistake in FFXIV that can come from not testing things sufficiently. Let's say theoretically that any dungeon can become M+ by clearing it on minimum ilevel. Then it's discovered that you could clear level +20 by removing all your gear so the game naively sets the difficulty based on the entry gear stats being zero.

The way people in this game quickly attribute inaction from SE as "not a bug" is why I feel SE doesn't take risks.

honestly it's why I think that SE has no fair chances to plan really new things, Blizzard content is always released in a buggy unbalanced mess after months of Beta or PTRs, but ppl neither care nor remember it.
It's a bit of the bethesda effect if you think about it.
Bethesda games are notorious for beign buggy but while it started as a meme it has become the norm and ppl have come to accept it, which honestly it's wrong.
The same happens with Blizzard and after all this years you would expect the quality control to become stricter but I think it's becoming more lax and less than a concern for the consumers but they get a free pass and if you point out it on a forum be ready to be called and hater or worse. THAT is the amount of power that blizzard has over it's playerbase.
That is why I say that a wod quality expansion will be the end of the game, maybe I'm wrong, but I really don't see that same grip on ppl that you can see in the other games

[SinisterJoints]

That is why I say that a wod quality expansion will be the end of the game, maybe I'm wrong, but I really don't see that same grip on ppl that you can see in the other games

Because there is NO DEPTH to this game. Which is why the OP made this post to begin with. Everything except MSQ in this game is more shallow than a giant in a kiddy pool. They have so many systems in this game that they can literally improve on by adding an extra layer here and there. Yes, I think savage type dungeons would work, and work quite well. People have been asking for harder dungeons etc. since SE has been leasing these powederpuff dungeons and other content.


But these threads always turn out to be an internet epeen contest where someone always has to be right, and can't just be opinionated. THIS is why we cant get our voices out. THIS is why SE pays no mind to the NA threads. We are disorganized, fight with each other often, get off topic and derail threads. I wouldn't read them either!

[Remedi]

I agree that there's no depth but I say that a scaling dungeon with no depth dungeon is not going to cut it.
SE has to reinvent their dungeon formula at least before they can really work on something like savage+ dungeons, we need at least savage dungeons with trashes that are not boring and level design that isn't a simple corridor.

The heroic modes in catcalysm on release were fun because they could kick your ass, I still remember to this day that the first pull in throne of the tides had some healers that if left unchecked could refull the whole pack in matter of seconds

From time to time I tend to watch this kinds of vids
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37a2bWeVeB4
But imagine something like the drake run in grim batol applied here and there in 14, where how you are good at using the drakes you can make your run go better or worse. Dungeons really need to be improved vastly

[SargentToughie]

I agree that there's no depth but I say that a scaling dungeon with no depth dungeon is not going to cut it.

The fact that Yoshida replied to the unending stream of difficult 4 man content requests by basically saying "Design 2hard can't 1-shot the healer so I guess PotD will have to be good enough lol" was probably the most discouraging answer I've ever heard for the future of this game.

Seriously? You can't come up with anything that would give some 4 man content some actual teeth?

I pray that the MH event is an overwhelming success, and that we see more content like it as a result.

[Remedi]

The fact that Yoshida replied to the unending stream of difficult 4 man content requests by basically saying "Design 2hard can't 1-shot the healer so I guess PotD will have to be good enough lol" was probably the most discouraging answer I've ever heard for the future of this game.

Seriously? You can't come up with anything that would give some 4 man content some actual teeth?

I pray that the MH event is an overwhelming success, and that we see more content like it as a result.

Yes it was but Yoshida has caved so many times that he will cave to this one too.
I mean they said DRK cds were made with boss TB in mind and they woudln't change them........

[KaldeaSahaline]

Partecipation rates + what they did after launch (the added a weekly to get a LFR quality gear (tidus laugh)and then in wod.
Honestly Bronze clear rates should be at least double the gold ones not about the same (P.s. I thought it was 20% tbh), which makes me think that partecipation was low, perhaps below what blizzard itself believed it to be, because then they went and changed it all based on some ppl feedback from the first one and then they revised them completely with mythic+ by also adding the carrot on a stick, I think we should consider this a factor to the popularity when thinking about them.

CM completion rates being similar across levels could also indicate that the content was only aimed at a specific playerbase, and that across that targeted playerbase participation could actually have been fairly high.

Again, they change things (for better or worse) all the time, it's called evolving and growing. It's something you (and I and others) have been clamoring about over the forums and this thread.

The game I considered shat out is OW, while I recognize it is a good game, it is a terrible blizzard game, there's really no content besides multiplayer and all blizzard games had that component on top of a solid single player mode, what's worse is that they do have Pve story maps, but they keep it ransomed to events. Honestly that felt a betrayal on their quality, perhaps it started when they decided to split SC2 in 3 games, but really they went too far.
Frankly they idd cobbled the game from the remnants of titan project (their words not mine) added some multiplayer aspects to it and then sold it, while just writing the story afterward.
That really irks me, comparing it to masterpieces of the past really makes ti come up short
Let's also consider that games with the same focus as OW have failed btw, it makes me think that it's really about just the game but also who made the game that sold the it

Your analysis is incredibly juvenile. Have you played OW? Are you even a fan of the genre? OW won GotY and was incredibly well designed. It may not have a single player campaign, but you somehow think that makes it a shit product because it doesn't cater to you specifically?

Other games don't do it as well as OW or as well as Blizz. That's a fact. Blizz may not always make the best games, but they have consistently decent implementations.

On SC2 we agree. I know why they did it, but I don't like it, as a previously HUGE SC fan.

See I would prefer that any theoretical M+ on FFXIV actually provide solutions that aren't just "BiS DPS", and the way the game scales mobs doesn't work that way. I've never seen a MMORPG game ever scale trash mobs in a way that just didn't turn it into gear durability/stamina endurance test. Like in present content, eg the Lighthouse, you can start with your gear at 100% and end up with 17% at the end if it goes particularly poorly (which is what it did on release, since people died to mechanics that weren't clear yet.)

Yet every time a suggestion thread comes up, it's inevitable that players ask for more DPS tools to make gameplay faceroll easy. This mindset needs to change, or every piece of content is just going to be "dps sponge."

What are you actually going on about now? I literally just gave you examples in WoW that show you it can be done, and done easily. I agree if it was merely supplanted as is in the current game it'd be nothing but sponges, but that doesn't mean it can't exist with corresponding systems changes.

This coming from someone who presented this for how to fix Secret of the Lilies.

An improvement so hilariously overpowered, White Mage would make Heavensward Warrior blush. This change literally renders Astro and Scholar entirely obsolete. In fact, the new meta would be one WHM and five DPS. That's how absurdly powerful this is. And yet, you have the audacity to call out raiders for having bad ideas? Your bias makes even the most elitist raider look humbled. Alas, you're still the one claiming hardcore raiders overheal and practically jumped for joy when you assumed White Mage's initial Stormblood release would force healers to use Cure/Cure II when everyone all but laughed at Secret of the Lilies. You have no business discussing anything regarding optimization or balance.

Lol - appreciate the laugh.

FFXIV is FFXIV, it's not going to grow by copying WoW, and WoW, makes a lot more QA mistakes than SE does by miles.

Wow - what strong analysis. You do know that WoW is probably 4x as large as FF14 right? That means it's going to have correspondingly more issues. That's common sense logic.

FF14 is as successful as it is because of Yoshi taking inspiration from WoW (his own words), thus it stands to reason it could grow from adopting elements from other successful games.

honestly it's why I think that SE has no fair chances to plan really new things, Blizzard content is always released in a buggy unbalanced mess after months of Beta or PTRs, but ppl neither care nor remember it.
It's a bit of the bethesda effect if you think about it.
Bethesda games are notorious for beign buggy but while it started as a meme it has become the norm and ppl have come to accept it, which honestly it's wrong.
The same happens with Blizzard and after all this years you would expect the quality control to become stricter but I think it's becoming more lax and less than a concern for the consumers but they get a free pass and if you point out it on a forum be ready to be called and hater or worse. THAT is the amount of power that blizzard has over it's playerbase.
That is why I say that a wod quality expansion will be the end of the game, maybe I'm wrong, but I really don't see that same grip on ppl that you can see in the other games

More juvenile analysis and irrational bias.

Firstly you mentioned that Blizz always releases buggy/unbalanced messes. This is factually inaccurate. They do not ALWAYS do it. It may happen a lot, maybe even frequently, MAYBE even more often than not, but that is not always. Do not exaggerate your point unnecessarily as it dilutes yours credibility.

Secondly, you assume that testing/balance efforts have gotten "worse" or "more lax", which demonstrates to me that you have absolutely no experience working in SDLC.

Things change and evolve. That means that as systems become more robust, more things can break and cause problems. I mean look to any REAL world examples. Cars, Houses, Electronics, etc.

The fact that Yoshida replied to the unending stream of difficult 4 man content requests by basically saying "Design 2hard can't 1-shot the healer so I guess PotD will have to be good enough lol" was probably the most discouraging answer I've ever heard for the future of this game.

Seriously? You can't come up with anything that would give some 4 man content some actual teeth?

I pray that the MH event is an overwhelming success, and that we see more content like it as a result.

Did he really say that? So disappointing if so.