Letter to Mr. Yoshi

[Genoreaper]

With parser support there would be plenty of community resources showing ideal dps per ilvl. If nothing else trying to beat your scores in any fight would lead to improvement

Again
tanks have aggro markers
Healers get health bars to use
Why does dps operate blindly with their job

Should we remove them and soley rely on rotations and estimations?

Should we remove all damage numbers and treat every encounter like stone sea and sky, blindly melting health bars against the clock?

[Genoreaper]

Again I'll ask.

if you don't want us to know our dps as dps, let's remove health bars for healers because they should just know, and remove aggro signs for tanks because If they just play like they should it will be good enough.

WhIle some may think that's extreme let's be real. A tank is meant primarily to hold aggro, so they get an indicator at how well they are doing per mob, we all do so we can use our aggro reducing skills to assist. It would be hell without that tool. We don't expect you to blindly stay in tank stance following rotation. While helpful you could easily kick a tank that isn't doing their job and holding it, it is clearly displayed.

Healers have health bars for every party Member, not just their own, so they can effectively do their job and heal those in need. Again, we don't expect you to go blind and hope it works, YOU have the tools to succeed. A bad healer is easy to spot and remove based on this.

Removing bad tanks and healers for not performing their job is seen as acceptable, but when it comes to dps suddenly its taboo to judge?

Dps however is meant to do the most damage per second as possible and we have zero idea of how to Guage it.

the funny thing is there have been very few stories of being harassed about peoples parses directly, just secondhand stories, but in contrast there are thousands of parses posted wordlessly usually only for the their own numbers.

The game boils down to numbers, if my job is to do the most damage possible let me see and adjust it as needed. If you don't want us to know let's remove all floating numbers and treat every encounter with the same vagueness as sea stone and sky, just focus on blindly melting health bars with no numbers during a time limit

[Yeol]

People are kind of asking for it because they want to force other people to get better.

It is not about forcing other people to get better. Some want to improve their own game-play.
Also, If personal parse was added, people who don't want to get better can simply ignore it.

Most people at end-game have no idea where they stand. Are they good? Are they bad?
They assume that they are good because they have been clearing content. However, clearing content =/= good player (Not always).

I once joined a farm party on PF that kept failing dps check. The party leader blamed me [BRD] because BRDs have the lowest dps. He suggested replacing me with another dps. While in reality, it was him (The party leader) Who was doing the same dps as tanks [He was a DRG]. Obviously he had no idea how bad his dps was. He never doubted himself, because he cleared this fight multiple times before.

Another story is about a player who cleared O8S.
What he does not realize is that he has been carried this entire time by his static members. Their performance is above average so they carried his weight. He thinks that is a good player because he cleared O8S, when in reality he isn't.

I don't think it's fair to leave players in the dark regarding their performance. And i'm pretty sure many players will try to improve if they knew where they stand.

[Genoreaper]

It is not about forcing other people to get better. Some want to improve their own game-play.
Also, If personal parse was added, people who don't want to get better can simply ignore it.

Most people at end-game have no idea where they stand. Are they good? Are they bad?
They assume that they are good because they have been clearing content. However, clearing content =/= good player (Not always).

I once joined a farm party on PF that kept failing dps check. The party leader blamed me [BRD] because BRDs have the lowest dps. He suggested replacing me with another dps. While in reality, it was him (The party leader) Who was doing the same dps as tanks [He was a DRG]. Obviously he had no idea how bad his dps was. He never doubted himself, because he cleared this fight multiple times before.

Another story is about a player who cleared O8S.
What he does not realize is that he has been carried this entire time by his static members. Their performance is above average so they carried his weight. He thinks that is a good player because he cleared O8S, when in reality he isn't.

I don't think it's fair to leave players in the dark regarding their performance. And i'm pretty sure many players will try to improve if they knew where they stand.

This entirely I want to know where I stand and be able to Guage progress with every run over time, i want to see different meld results, different rotation results, give me inretest in competing with myself in all content and I might care about my roulettes again

[ShadowHunterrX]

This is a meme casual and/or bad players perceive raiders to have. If this were in anyway accurate, why do you see the likes of Xeno, Bokchoy, Momo Sama, MrHappy and other top tier players all in PF for literally no reason except they're bored and like doing the content? You think Xeno is getting good kill times in a random pick-up? Speaking of myself, I've spent over an hour with a group far below my own skill level. Why? They were putting forth an effort. That's what most raiders are asking for: effort and consistency. None of us care if the run takes a little longer in a PF, provided people are at least trying. What does irk people is when someone repeatedly dies to the same mechanics or clearly has little idea how their job plays at a high level.

Regardless, your own example defeats your argument. "play my favourite game with my friends." You can be an Ice Mage for all I care when playing with your friends. Go nuts and have fun. When you're queuing with random people, especially in higher end game. How about showing a little courtesy and not wasting their time? Five minutes is no big deal; few raiders will care. They'll be a bit less forgiving if you're contributing less than half the DPS of everyone else despite having the same ilvl.

Not that I disagree. But you are missing the point... those where just 2 examples of the MANY mindsets people have in DF and not PF. Too make it easier, I just narrow it down to 2.

If we talk about PF you are right. Most people with the *having fun* wont join those. But the leechers or what you called ice mage will.

Sorry, don't wanna be disrespectfull but, top tier or those streamers are more a thing in the US then Europe. Mr.happy has nice guides.

I am proud of you *high skill raider* to join a low skilled party. You can better phrase it as experience. Ice mages are low skill.

[Aeilyi]

I'm fine with parsing. But whether it turns out to be good or bad thing depends on the community. I appreciate getting some kind of feed back to see whether I've improved or not. Sometimes I like to test things out and see how numbers change. I don't really care too much how others do as long as we are able to clear. I enjoy watching myself improve, plus, it gives me something to work on even long after I've finished all of my goals in the game. What I do care is if people are trying too hard to DPS that it costed us a clear. I'm looking at the healers who pushes all of the healing onto their co-healers so they could dps more or DPS trying to squeeze in 1 more GCD even though we're already late during O7S Biblio phase. You can dps all you want but mechanics comes first.

I think parsing should be limited to Savage and Extreme where the issue of running into enrage is very real. The reason why I included Extreme is because it's the difficulty level right before Savage. People tend to practice their jobs in Extreme to get ready to move onto Savage. I think it would be beneficial for people to receive feedback on their performance in these two difficulty levels especially for DPS jobs. Sure, there's Stone, Sea, and Sky dummies but it only tells if you're doing enough dps for the fight while standing still. And even then, not all people try to kill the dummy before trying Savage. The hardest part about these higher difficulty fights is to dps while handling mechanics which is when dps tends to drop. The other contents are easy enough to clear. Sure, it might take longer if someone doesn't play correctly but you'll still be able to clear it in the end.

One thing that I don't like and probably a little unrelated to offiicial parsers, are people who join first clear parties planning to bump up their FFlogs then getting salty when things don't go well. When joining first clear parties, especially in party finder, expect things to not always be optimal and come with the mindset to help instead of "my parses." You can argue that people should already know the mechanics like on the back of their hand when joining clear parties. Unfortunately, there are many small unspoken details that might have been missed during prog such as running through Godka while scrambling to get into position during double Wings of Destruction will snapshot you as the target. Instead of yelling at them, kindly let them know how it can be fixed, you are there to help. If you want to work on your parse, you'll have a better time joining a duty complete or making your own pf.

Overall, I am fine with having official parsers in Extreme and Savage only. Either that or create a new difficulty level in between Extreme and Savage if people don't want parsers in Extreme. The rest of the content is fine as is.

[dejavutwo]

I always found it strange that a game that relies so heavily on DPS checks provides you no feedback on your DPS. Feedback is such an important part of learning, yet almost none is provided by the game itself.

[Rockette]

I always found it strange that a game that relies so heavily on DPS checks provides you no feedback on your DPS. Feedback is such an important part of learning, yet almost none is provided by the game itself.

It's almost like players don't want to be held accountable in their roles for party content.

[RiyahArp]

I always found it strange that a game that relies so heavily on DPS checks provides you no feedback on your DPS. Feedback is such an important part of learning, yet almost none is provided by the game itself.

It doesn't rely heavily on DPS checks. You only get them in ex trials and savage, which is a tiny part of the game. Too many people here think all people do in this game is savage or something, when you can play it without ever encountering a serious dps check in it, and the type of play you do can easily be gauged how well you are doing by eyeballing it.

And tbh, most people do fine enough by eyeballing it. People here talk a lot of junk about needing it when they really use it to optimize, not to be competent. They define what is good much higher than what is needed to beat the content, which is why FFLogs sucks.

[Sigma-Astra]

It doesn't rely heavily on DPS checks. You only get them in ex trials and savage, which is a tiny part of the game. Too many people here think all people do in this game is savage or something, when you can play it without ever encountering a serious dps check in it, and the type of play you do can easily be gauged how well you are doing by eyeballing it.

And tbh, most people do fine enough by eyeballing it. People here talk a lot of junk about needing it when they really use it to optimize, not to be competent. They define what is good much higher than what is needed to beat the content, which is why FFLogs sucks.

There are DPS checks at least in the Vault and Ala Mihgo, they're not just relegated towards EX trials and Savage. That is a bit false.

As for eyeballing it, that's never a good indicator. Anyone can eyeball and say they're #2 on the enmity list and think they're doing an excellent job while doing things incorrectly or out of order because the next person doesn't know what they're doing either or they died, so guess what? You just got bumped higher on the list despite not being all that great yourself either.

FFlogs isn't just for optimization, it IS also for competency. A person's FFlogs will show whether that person used their mitigation or role actions correctly, it'll show their up time percentages, deaths, buffs. It's about optimization AND competence. You need both. Lamenting that a tool sucks without properly knowing about using it yourself only shows your bias against something that's only meant to help you, not hinder you.

I'm not sure why you need to put down parsing in a thread specifically meant for people FOR parsing, not against it.