Letter to Mr. Yoshi

[LadyKairi]

Where to start.... First I need to say that someone asking for proof when you say things like “the community behavior needs to improve first”, doesn’t mean they’re being toxic or rude. If you are going to make blanket statements about the community as a whole, you need to cough up proof, please. Acedotes do not count. We are trying to have a discussion, and it is not wrong if someone to ask you to contribute more than false accusations. What is your proof that an official parser will cause the community to go down hill?

What bothers me about the “but people are going to get more toxic” argument is.. what makes you people think harassment over parse numbers is gonna magically okay with SE? Harassment hasn’t been and never will be okay. An official parser WILL NOT CHANGE THAT. It pisses me off to no end to hear someone complaining about “being harassed over their numbers” and when asked if they reported said person they say “well no”. BRUH. If you are one of these people, you have zero right to complain. In fact, you are CONTRIBUTING to the problem!

How in the seven hells is the behavior going to get corrected if you keep letting people get away with it? People already get too comfortable with the veil of anonymity the internet gives them. If someone is harassing another player for their numbers and don’t get reported for it, they will keep getting away with it and, in turn, make their behavior worse. They usually become a repeated offender because they think nothing will happen to them, and it usually escalates. You cannot expect negative behavior to get fixed on its own. The devs need these things to be brought to their attention. And don’t give me the “but it’s a game, I should just be able to relax and not worry about it”. No. Just. No. Yes, XIV is a game, but you are playing with REAL PEOPLE. People on the internet tend to forget their actions have consequences, and they need to be reminded that certain behavior in the game is not acceptable. Either they shape up and be a decent human being, or they lose their account. Either way it’s a win, imo.

I’m sick of people saying that us raiders are the toxic ones, yet they are far more toxic (in my experience). More often than not, I see pro parsers trying to get data from anti parsers to try and understand. To properly discuss. Yet, more often than not, anti parsers come in here full of emotion and call those who don’t agree with them a variety of names. I’m trying really hard to understand the other side, but I don’t understand why is letting people be a detriment to their party okay? Why does their enjoyment mean more than the others? Why is their sub money worth more than the others? Just like others here, I’m not saying you need to be the best at your job, but at least pull your weight.


Let me give an example. Someone goes into sigmascape savage and their party clears. Say this person is a smn and they only do 3k damage with only 0-1 deaths. All of the tanks pass them and the healers are only 100-200 dps behind them. How in the world is this okay? Because they cleared? Not in my book. I personally do not care about normal dungeons. BS all you want there, who cares? However, if you are coming into savage content, performing that low should not be okay regardless of what floor you are on. Why should people carry others through savage content? I take it easy in any other content, however, going into savage I do my best for the sake of the party. That should be the mentality when doing high tier content, imo. I do not want to go carrying people when it’s on savage content. Everywhere else I do not care, but savage content is not the place for people who expect carries. So many med 2 spamming healers, “only use instant cast spells” casters, and the like. It should not be okay. People should be held accountable in savage content.

Finally, DPS is everything in this game. You are considered a good player if you do a ton of damage while still being able to support your party and do mechanics properly. Sorry to say, but you are not going to do amazing numbers if you don’t do mechanics. If you are dead, you do zero damage, raise sickness gimps you pretty badly, and many mechanics that don’t kill outright inflict a damage reduction debuff. Why people think neglecting mechanics magically increases someone’s damage, I don’t understand. It’s just plain false. And please remember that this is mostly in regards to people who know a fight. People learning a fight get a pass, because mistakes happen when you are learning. Those who are past the learning stage have zero excuse, and that is when the true test of damage comes in. To be honest, the same visual effects for mechanics are used while leveling. There should be no excuse why people at level 70 don’t know what a stack marker looks like by now, in my opinion at least.


Sorry for the novel, but wanted to reply to some big things I’ve seen so far.

[SargentToughie]

Finally, DPS is everything in this game. You are considered a good player if you do a ton of damage while still being able to support your party and do mechanics properly. Sorry to say, but you are not going to do amazing numbers if you don’t do mechanics. If you are dead, you do zero damage, raise sickness gimps you pretty badly, and many mechanics that don’t kill outright inflict a damage reduction debuff. Why people think neglecting mechanics magically increases someone’s damage, I don’t understand. It’s just plain false.

I really like your post as a whole, I'm just providing a bit of insight into the whole "DPS players that parse high are greedy selfish toxic people that hinder their party" stigma.

I'm 99% certain that it comes from people that have never actually set foot in savage, and don't have a proper frame of reference for just how punishing, or damaging these mechanics actually are. DPS players in, say, Swallow's Compass are able to stand in orange circles for more damage because they take like... 25% of their HP as a punishment and nothing more. Ergo, people see that and think "Oh there goes that greedy DPS player again, making MY LIFE HARDER FOR THEIR TOXIC DAMAGES!" The first boss in Hell's Lid is actually a perfect example of this. I make a game out of seeing how many vuln stacks I can collect because the damage that swing does is so laughable, yet it's still ultimately a mechanic that's ignored for the sake of my deepz.

They fail to really properly grasp how bad it is to mess up a mechanic in Savage, where one misstep is very liable to kill either you, or another party member.

[LadyKairi]

Important stuff

Thank you for the insight. It’s been a while since I’ve stepped foot into a normal dungeon, so I completely forgot. I’m too used to harsher mechanics. Thank you, again hehe.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Thank you for the insight. It’s been a while since I’ve stepped foot into a normal dungeon, so I completely forgot. I’m too used to harsher mechanics. Thank you, again hehe.

I concur with Sargent. I've horrible about standing in things I know won't kill me in baby content because why not? Like being the MT in Chadarnook and not getting in the plane or eating a question mark Blizzard III from Kefka for uptime. There just isn't a reason to move when it does laughable damage to a tank, especially since the OT typically has nothing to do, or when a DPS can be healed through regen ticks and maybe Second Wind.

[Aquaslash]

I support what the OP wants, but do you guys actually watch the live letters? Specifically do you see Yoshida's reactions when this subject comes up? To say he feels strongly about this and similar subjects is an understatement. There was one time where he said in clear English "I hate Cleric Stance" and then later proceeded to nerf it into nonexistence.

That is to say, it appears that Yoshida has a clear vision for this game, and official parsing isn't a part of it.

[Squintina]

I'd love an ingame parser (personal or not, either way is fine). Or an ingame "grader", maybe not a pure parser, but something that takes in basic things like: gear, damage, healing (and overheals), active time, and some kind of expected CPM for said job to give a grade letter at the end with a scorecard.

Anything really that allows our PS4 brethrens a more appropriate measuring tool than just training dummies and SSS.

As far as toxic players go and the possibility this might increase such behavior - report them! If it doesn't increase it, great. If it does increase it, we get to clean up the community as long as people take the time to report toxicity. It's a win all around.

[Genoreaper]

From what I've seen there are two types of people on this thread, those who want to grow as players using actual effective tools, the same tools that built the foundation for every rotation people use and claim is fine enough of just stuck to. Which wouldn't exist without pc players using parsers in the first place.

And those who fear their numbers becoming public, the only reason someone would fear their own numbers being shown which begs the question of why? Are you one of the " you don't pay my sub, I'll play ice mage if I want" are you willingly only trying the basic rotation whIle watching netflix, the ones relying on the group to carry you through content? There is no rEason you should object to me seeing my OWN numbers.

If you barely want to contribute, and only care about your gaming experience why are you on an mmo. Might I remind you, you don't pay my sub, you have zero right to squander my play time due to the fact you clearly dont want to play the game as intended.

Ironically most of the toxicity has come from those crying about a parser being implemented. Those in favor have said multiple times they could care less to see your numbers, they would be happy only knowing their own.

[ShadowHunterrX]

From what I've seen there are two types of people on this thread, those who want to grow as players using actual effective tools, the same tools that built the foundation for every rotation people use and claim is fine enough of just stuck to. Which wouldn't exist without pc players using parsers in the first place.

And those who fear their numbers becoming public, the only reason someone would fear their own numbers being shown which begs the question of why? Are you one of the " you don't pay my sub, I'll play ice mage if I want" are you willingly only trying the basic rotation whIle watching netflix, the ones relying on the group to carry you through content? There is no rEason you should object to me seeing my OWN numbers.

If you barely want to contribute, and only care about your gaming experience why are you on an mmo. Might I remind you, you don't pay my sub, you have zero right to squander my play time due to the fact you clearly dont want to play the game as intended.

Ironically most of the toxicity has come from those crying about a parser being implemented. Those in favor have said multiple times they could care less to see your numbers, they would be happy only knowing their own.

Why complain about toxicity... if you are also doing it yourself.Why complain about *you pay my sub people*... if you also doing it yourself. That's a little hypocrite... I understand your frustraction, but come on.

Most of the arguments I read are filled just *kick other players down* ... that's toxic.

If you dont want bad players waste your time, get friends,group up and never use DF. Bad players will never go away.... mind you. Parser wont help.

You forgot one 1 big group of people who arent on the forums. Most people good or bad don't care about this at all. They just boot up the game and are having fun. Maybe you guys should *have fun*.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Most of the arguments I read are filled just *kick other players down* ... that's toxic.

If you don't want bad players waste your time, get friends,group up and never use DF. Bad players will never go away.... mind you. Parser wont help.

*kicking other players down* as in "the ice mage unwilling to learn or accept the basic concept of their class / job at lv50+", the "I am basically half-assing this while watching something on netflix sorry if it takes 5-10min longer to clear", the guy relying on a group to carry them through (you can never be low enough to not be able to clear content at your gear if you are at min ilvl). Yeah. Because it is toxic pointing out major issues. But I am sure John Doe watching netflix will be outraged to hear that Mr Smith is testing his own skill on content to see how well he plays without saying a word of how John Doe performs.

Just because official parsers would be a thing it wouldn't change the stance of SE to strictly forbid any form of harassment to other players, INCLUDING mercilessly calling out DPS numbers in a rude manner rather than "do you want to talk about it".

But I digress...

Your solution to bad players not improving is "just get friends and / or never use Duty Finder"? Why not actually give players (that could be unintentionally bad because they have nothing to measure their rotation on) a self-parser on-demand so they can work on themselves? All I get from your post is a vibe of you conforming bad players to stay bad and better players to suck it up.

All we ask for is a certain amount of competence - mind you that means stuff like not using enmity combos as an offtank unless specifically needed, not standing there for 10 seconds doing nothing because regen is enough to work with, using your AOE abilities for 6+ mob pulls (story of my life every time I tank) and so on. Yet I see players COMPLETELY OBLIVIOUS to how bad they perform unless you tell them a more effective rotation (having to tell Black Mages how to utilize Blizzard III & Fire III efficiently is always a fun one) because NOTHING in this game tells them "hey mate, your rotation is far from ideal, you should work on it, your damage output might make you a liability". It is only when you hit Extreme and Savage that you either realize that you haven't improved on your journey to 70 or you complain about how the content is too punishing when in actuality the content previous to that was a cakewalk.

[KaldeaSahaline]

I've been in many runs where not everyone does the same damage. Some people might have worse equip, some might be practicing a new class, some might just be having a bad day.

And just for the record, I always try to do my best when I DPS.

I asked you TWO very specific questions that you ignored. I wanted to know if you are ok with having teammates who are only active 30% of the time in a given dungeon (normal content)? I'm not talking about damage, DPS, gear, new class, or bad days. I'm saying are you OK with the concept of your teammates only being active 30% of the time?

The second question was asking if you believe in accountability. It's a simple yes or no question.

I have a third question now though. Seeing your statement that "not everyone does the same damage". How are you quantifying this? How do you know how much damage others are doing?

Please - answer these questions for the sake of the discussion.

Thank you!

Why complain about toxicity... if you are also doing it yourself.Why complain about *you pay my sub people*... if you also doing it yourself. That's a little hypocrite... I understand your frustraction, but come on.

Where in his post was him being toxic? I didn't see it. Mind citing specific examples? The ones you referenced aren't actual toxicity.