Discussion on tanking

[Aana]

Two sides of the coin. If DPS are pulling in front of you once in a blue moon, whatever. It happens. If they do it once no biggie. If they keep doing it ask them to stop. If they dont, they can enjoy the floor.

However, if this situation happens to you on a regular basis, then you might need to consider a look in the mirror. Are you are just moving excessively slowly? Blowing your entire CD suite for a lame set of trash mobs then waiting for them before pulling?

If DPS seem to ALWAYS be pulling then you are probably just being really, really slow. If it happens once in a blue moon, then you are fine and just got a randomly impatient player. Just make sure you arent the one holding the group up.

[TouchandFeel]

If DPS seem to ALWAYS be pulling then you are probably just being really, really slow ... Just make sure you arent the one holding the group up.

To expand on this, I have ended up in DF groups with tanks that would literally just stop and wait upwards of 10 to 15 seconds before pulling every single individual group of mobs. I have had tanks that do this and spend the wait time slowly marking every single mob in the group first. I've even had tanks that sit and wait AND then do a countdown or ready check before going ... for ... every ... single ... pull.

While I didn't jump ahead and start pulling, I definitely let them know that they could just pull and that what they were doing was excessive and greatly slowing down the run.
While some where receptive, many were extremely stubborn and convinced they knew what they were doing and that it was fine.

Please, please, please don't be one of those tanks.

[Driskus]

To expand on this, I have ended up in DF groups with tanks that would literally just stop and wait upwards of 10 to 15 seconds before pulling every single individual group of mobs. I have had tanks that do this and spend the wait time slowly marking every single mob in the group first.

This is one of the biggest ones that get me. I don't mind if its a low level dungeon where the DPS might not have AoE yet, or where the tank doesn't have their stance. I will usually just DoT everything and if I end up tanking as the healer, oh well, the mobs do basically zero damage anyway. In high level dungeons where everybody has AoE and tank stances are a thing, it doesn't make sense at all to single target everything. If I see it in a higher level dungeon (50+), I'll usually throw out some Holy spam to see if they get the hint once their enemy list goes all green/yellow instead of all red. Some do, but some still keep single targeting and marking everything. I've ended up tanking all of Baelsar's Wall minus the bosses on WHM because of a tank like that.

Also the ones that sit and wait for everybody to be at absolute max HP, MP and TP before pulling a boss. Bonus points if they sit there and wait on the healer's shield buff to wear off before pulling. Like why? Divine Benison isn't going to pull aggro like that...

[Gemina]

"Own your aggro".

Those were the words given to me by my tanking senpai a little ways back. He was not very sympathetic when I told him about getting trolled in 50/60 roulette when the DPS purposely pulled ahead of me knowing I was a budding tank. He literally told me I can choose to cry about it, or get better, faster, and stronger and "Make the DPS know who's the HBIC". I chose the latter.

Granted, a DPS who pulls ahead of the tank better know what they're doing, but I feel it is never a tanks job to let an AWOL DPS player eat dirt. This serves to lengthen the run even more so than it does teach that player a lesson. If someone is taking damage, you need to protect them. That is YOUR role. "Own your aggro"

[Siegrand]

"Own your aggro".

Those were the words given to me by my tanking senpai a little ways back. He was not very sympathetic when I told him about getting trolled in 50/60 roulette when the DPS purposely pulled ahead of me knowing I was a budding tank. He literally told me I can choose to cry about it, or get better, faster, and stronger and "Make the DPS know who's the HBIC". I chose the latter.

Granted, a DPS who pulls ahead of the tank better know what they're doing, but I feel it is never a tanks job to let an AWOL DPS player eat dirt. This serves to lengthen the run even more so than it does teach that player a lesson. If someone is taking damage, you need to protect them. That is YOUR role. "Own your aggro"

While I still think that people who pull instead of waiting for the tank to are assholes, I like that methodology.

[Gemina]

While I still think that people who pull instead of waiting for the tank to are assholes, I like that methodology.

Oh believe me, I am far from excusing these players from poor etiquette. However, intent of the DPS is important. I will even say there are rare cases where it might be best to let them die if they pull early. An example would be where if they pull when the party's resources are depleted, which will lead to a sure wipe if everyone attacks. One death is far better than four. Again though, this is an extremely rare situation, and would suggest the DPS player has no idea what they're doing, or they are trolling. Either way: dead, and possibly booted.

A DPS pulling before the tank will likely not intend to tank the mobs they pull. They will expect the tank to take the aggro off of them. If the tank is experienced, which the DPS players should be able to gauge before pulling ahead of them, it won't be a problem, and the run will go faster. Some tanks are even thankful for this. However, if the tank is inexperienced, it can really bring the run down, and also make the tank feel inadequate.

Experienced players who are very adaptable are quite rare in DF. Because of this, it is generally just good practice to let the tank pull at their leisure save the case where they stand around for minutes on end with their heads in the clouds. I find it best to go into DF with an expectation no higher than the bare minimum. Especially as a DPS. It would be really awesome if we all operated under the mindset, "How can I be the best help to this group?" rather than, "I hope these effers don't slow me down."

[AppleJinx]

Good tanks can identify what the party is capable of and set the pace based on said assessment. If a trash packs dies fast then there's no reason to take 200 years between pulls. On the contrary, if trash packs are dying slowly due to bad dps players then there's no reason to pull big and you can go slower than usual or you can kick the baddies from your party in order to not sour your own experience. Basically all this comes with experience and if you never step out of your comfort zone and experiment then you will never get better.

[MahoSenshi]

Dunno. If DPS is pulling ahead of you, its either "muh stacks!" - so its ok to pull ahead (just grab aggro back), or tank is too slow.

[fumofu]

Just grow a thick skin and decide on how you want to play this game. You can't please everyone so don't even try, just play the way you want. The choice is yours. Especially when you're a tank or a healer and can decide who lives and who dies.

ps. and no, random players are not a team. Team can be formed only with friends and people you know.