Letter to MR Yoshi: Why parses system is destroying the ffxiv world.

[Ruf]

Kaiiiiiva C

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Late, but they do exist:

This was earlier today on Aether. This is the kind of stuff as to what makes me not like parsing (actually, it's more FFLogs than parsing, because of the leaderboard-like settings that some people seem to like pushing). I fully expect a 'their party, their rules' or 'make your own party' statement to be typed, or something to do with play styles. My main point to this particular screenshot is to have grey DPS means you have cleared the fight (it just means you might not have had a particularly good comp to boost your numbers) or haven't quite the gear to get better numbers. That speaks nothing of your competence. :\

Grey parses typically mean you are woefully undergeared and/or have died numerous times. Given they restricted the ilvl, someone with greys joining who's simply new is unlikely. Even in the scenario they are, people are entitled to want quick weekly clears. I don't mind helping, but sometimes, I simply want to blitz through weeklies either because I have other things to do or don't really want to clear but need books. Adding in-game parsers wouldn't change anything. If messages like that were banned, people can easily look up your logs and silently kick you.

[Tizzy_Tormentor]

To be fair, I kinda stay in Shield Oath for most of the dungeon because my PLD isn't as geared as my DPS Jobs and I don't want to lose hate against DPS who know exactly what they're doing (looking at you, BLM's).
Though I swap to Sword Oath once I'm comfortable with where everyone is at.

That's fair, a tank doing big pulls in tank stance is fine, usually a solid safety net for undergeared healers/tanks, also yes, overeager dps who don't know where they put their aggro buttons, the burden many a tank must face, I tend to pull in tank stance and do 2-3 aggro combos just to be on the safe side.

[Yeol]

Late, but they do exist:

This was earlier today on Aether. This is the kind of stuff as to what makes me not like parsing (actually, it's more FFLogs than parsing, because of the leaderboard-like settings that some people seem to like pushing). I fully expect a 'their party, their rules' or 'make your own party' statement to be typed, or something to do with play styles. My main point to this particular screenshot is to have grey DPS means you have cleared the fight (it just means you might not have had a particularly good comp to boost your numbers) or haven't quite the gear to get better numbers. That speaks nothing of your competence. :\

Many people do not know how to use FFlogs sadly. Also, this party clearly wanted a WAR that knew what he was doing.

Just a side note:
Lets say that the best MCH parse is 6,3k, and the worst MCH parse is 6k (Not too far from each other, only 300 dps difference).
The first MCH is going have a yellow parse (100%) while the second MCH is going to have a gray parse. But both players are actually good. the small difference could be because of party comp.

Percentiles mean nothing if the dps numbers are close to each other. People should look at things that matter (Active time, cpm, etc..)

You see this alot in Ultimate logs. Where everyone clears it but some end up having gray/green parses. This does not mean that they are bad players.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Many people do not know how to use FFlogs sadly. Also, this party clearly wanted a WAR that knew what he was doing.

Just a side note:
Lets say that the best MCH parse is 6,3k, and the worst MCH parse is 6k (Not too far from each other, only 300 dps difference).
The first MCH is going have a yellow parse (100%) while the second MCH is going to have a gray parse. But both players are actually good. the small difference could be because of party comp.

Percentiles mean nothing if the dps numbers are close to each other. People should look at things that matter (Active time, cpm, etc..)

You see this alot in Ultimate logs. Where everyone clears it but some end up having gray/green parses. This does not mean that they are bad players.

While I understand the overall point you're trying to make, your example is grossly exaggerated. Currently, the difference between the top ranked MCH (6,900) and a grey one is 2,000 DPS. I had to back track to 1951th place on God Kefka's ranking to finally find a grey ranked MCH. A 300 DPS difference is purple against orange, not orange against grey.

Ultimate logs are a very skewed example size due to how few clears are. Not to mention, many people don't optimize nearly to the same extent because of how demanding that content is. Some only clear once or twice, thus the results are even more skewed. Basically, it's not a good sample source to determine how percentages reflect skill on FFlogs.

[ImDingDing]

You don't define nor present "what is fun" for the rest of the community, running content with sh1t is not fun for me. You are free to unsub so am I, let's vote with our money and see who will change.

[Yeol]

While I understand the overall point you're trying to make, your example is grossly exaggerated. Currently, the difference between the top ranked MCH (6,900) and a grey one is 2,000 DPS. I had to back track to 1951th place on God Kefka's ranking to finally find a grey ranked MCH. A 300 DPS difference is purple against orange, not orange against grey.

Ultimate logs are a very skewed example size due to how few clears are. Not to mention, many people don't optimize nearly to the same extent because of how demanding that content is. Some only clear once or twice, thus the results are even more skewed. Basically, it's not a good sample source to determine how percentages reflect skill on FFlogs.

This is example was just to deliver the message to people who have no idea how to analyze logs and only look at percentiles.
I never said that this is what is currently happening.

Since a lot of people just look at your color and decide whether to keep you in their party or not. Ignoring the factors that affect it.

[Kaliesto]

I think some people are failing to see the long-term consequences, that is the thing I'm getting out of this thread.

What they think is good may have unintended consequences later on, I would be careful ignoring some obvious growing problems in the community at large if left unchecked. Public Parsing Data should cease IMO to minimize future issues, and let SE handle a official private version to stop some of the problems going on right now.

I get it, I really do. But this player made parsing system for FFXIV is losing it's intended purpose. Also I'm aware I once called parsing quite toxic but only because bad people made it that way, and the last thing FFXIV needs and especially Yoshi P. is having it grow like a virus.

Also like some other players have said, and I can vouch for this that I've seen my fair share of bad PF groups antagonizing other players that are not them.

If people need straight evidence then I encourage everyone here to start screenshots because apparently people need some convincing.

[AmeliaVerves]

I don't think people who say things like this realize how often they are grouped with people who are parsing and legitimately never know about it.

Literally this.
I don't know how things stand on NA or JP clusters but on Chaos I would guess around 50% of the PC players at least parse occasionally and even more parsed at least once just to see what it's all about. Thing is, people just don't even care too much about other party members. In 90% of the time it is basically just to see how well they perform themself and their friends who are with them.

Sadly the other 10% where people move out of their way and confront others negativly with their numbers or even go so far to activly harrass are the only times we can be sure parsers were running. So it's hard to tell actual numbers and compare them to make a point.

Late, but they do exist:

We have some of those on Chaos as well. While I could join those partys cause I meet the criteria I would never do. It's usually trap bait and I try to stay away of those. Still nothing I would consider harrassment or discrimination. ö.ö Just something to shrug about and move on (and do some jokes about with your triends). Let the idiots be idiots and wait in their unfilled party forever. ^^

[SaitoHikari]

We have some of those on Chaos as well. While I could join those partys cause I meet the criteria I would never do. It's usually trap bait and I try to stay away of those. Still nothing I would consider harrassment or discrimination. ö.ö Just something to shrug about and move on (and do some jokes about with your triends). Let the idiots be idiots and wait in their unfilled party forever. ^^

Trap bait indeed.

During the first week of 4.2, I ended up in a Byakko EX party led by a DRK tank with a PF description that was basically 'I want elitists with 90+% percentile scores'. I actually had a historical percentile of 100 for the fight already, only because I had the highest recorded DPS for days 1-2. Never said a word though, even when he started worshiping me even though I knew it wasn't that big a deal (getting high historicals during the first week is really more a matter of luck -especially for Bard-, and I guess ability to learn/adapt mid-run/guess mechanics very very quickly). I did manage to convince him to stop checking the damn parses and let a bunch of people who claimed that they were stuck at enrage and just wanted to clear stay in the party, if only because he was going to be waiting forever with the criteria he set. That, and I checked -his- records and knew something was up with him.

Indeed, when we got in, he didn't even know how to properly tank swap, so I watched in horror as it was either me or the poor RDM that got repeatedly slam dunk'd into the ground even WITH our enmity reduction skills. After several pulls, we all decided enough was enough and we weren't going to carry him to a clear, especially when he started blaming the rest of us for not DPSing fast enough and not using our enmity reduction properly. I left and tried to reform the party while looking for a different tank, and about 4 members of the old party returned. We cleared first pull, which meant that the failure to tank swap during the slams was the only reason we failed to clear before. Oh, and it turned out that half of the new party earned their first clear that run too.

We went on to farm 8 or so runs, a few people left, got a few more people that came in their clears, and so on without any issues... There were apparently other people parsing me because I got tells from a few of the party members wondering how the hell I was doing so much damage as a Bard. Bard is really easy in Byakko EX though.