Reconvene the Magic Council Please - Spell names in 5.0 please fix. [Request]

[Delmontyb]

In the game, and in the lore, there was a council which decided how spells should be named and they decided on Fire 1, Fire 2, Fire 3, and so on...

As FFXIV has evolved, spell names looked to communicate if they were ether AOE or Single Target, but as it is now, it's not clear if a skill is an AOE or single target ability.

Case in Point.

Fire 1, 3, 4 = Single Target
Fire 2 = Multi Target

Thunder, Thunder 3 = Single Target
Thunder 2, Thunder 4 = Multi Target

The same is true for other jobs outside of BLM.

What I hope we will see one day in this game is that Single Target Abilities keep with the 1, 2, 3... naming convention. And AOE abilities are appended with "aga"...

For example.
Fire 1, 2, 3 = Single Target
Firaga 1, Firaga 2 = Multi Target

Spells can still level up in numbers.

Thanks for your time an attention.

[Freyt]

I was actually thinking this same thing just a few days ago.

[Lukha]

Signed. I've never liked the numbered name scheme, and would far prefer to go back to using -ra, -ga, -ja, etc like the Japanese text does...

[Nestama]

Why not go down a different route and call them as they are in French? Fire, Extra Fire (in a way, the Extra can imply it's hitting additional mobs), Mega Fire, Giga Fire!

Unrelated, but since renaming is mentioned, I personally would like to see Thunder renamed to Lightning or Bolt. Never understood why those spells were called Thunder...

[Rongway]

We have this conversation once or twice a year. Here are my replies to the last time this came up. Other people's opinions can be gleaned from that thread.

This is mostly a localization topic rather than a UI topic, but here are some points from the several times we've discussed this topic in the past.

In most of Final Fantasy history, spell names have used suffixes xor spell names have used numbers, with a bigger suffix or a bigger number designating a stronger spell. This works largely because in most of FF history, AoE spells have simply been single target spells dispersed over all targets. The notable exception is XI, which because of its MMO-sized spell set, needed ways to differentiate between spells with different effects and so introduced suffixes as targeting indicators (the naming system actually became an interface feature) used concurrently with numbers to designate relative strength.

While it sounds like a simple thing just to rename all the spells using some sort of suffix system, it's not so straightforward.

Consider BLM and WHM which are pretty much the only jobs that would be affected by this.

If we just changed the numbers to suffixes, we'd get this:

Spell            I        II       III        IV

Fire          Fire      Fira    Firaga    Firaja
Blizzard  Blizzard  Blizzara  Blizzaga  Blizzaja
Thunder    Thunder  Thundara  Thundaga  Thundaja

Cure          Cure     Cur??     Cur??        --
Medica       Cur??     Cur??        --        --
Stone        Stone    Stonra    Stonga    Stonja
Aero          Aero  Aera/ora    Aeroga        --

Besides the obvious question of how to allocate the Cur- names between Cure and Medica, we have a naming scheme where the suffixes don't really have any meaning other than to sound cool. Since the suffix system doesn't have any mechanical purpose over the number system, the consideration comes down to, "Will a typical player be able to make the correct association between a spell and its effect?" While it may be easy for some, and certainly comfortable for a Final Fantasy fan, some players are playing XIV as their first Final Fantasy. The number system means those players don't have to accustom themselves to set of suffixes that don't encode any information. Is Fira the AoE spell or is Firaga? What about Aerora or Aeroga? Stonra or Stonga?


If we map the spells to a suffix system based on effect, we get something like this:

Spell            I        II          III            IV

Fire          Fire    Firaga      Fire II      Fire III
Blizzard  Blizzard  Blizzara  Blizzard II  Blizzard III
Thunder    Thunder  Thundaga   Thunder II   Thundaga II

Cure          Cure   Cure II       Curaga            --
Medica        Cura   Cura II           --            --
Stone        Stone  Stone II    Stone III      Stone IV
Aero          Aero   Aero II       Aeroga            --

(I've struck out the spell names that wouldn't change.)

This could have worked well had we used this system from the beginning. It's too late for that now, though. Changing the system would cause all sorts of trouble. Of the spells that would be renamed, almost half of them would be names that we've already been using for other spells for the last four years. Discussions of rotations and tactics between veterans, newbies, and returners would be prone to misunderstanding. And anyone who looks up one of the many out-of-date guides online would just end up even more lost.

In short, the ship has sailed. We have what we have.

If the suffixes aren't meaningful, then a numbering system is strictly better because, as you said, "either way things like which ones are AoE have to be learned by rote."

With suffixes, you first have to create your own internal association for suffixes to some arbitrary classification system, then associate them to spell effects.
With numbers, your native language has already defined this arbitrary classification system for you.


Example [illustrating the issue using suffixes that are not what we are used to in FF games]:
Assume you are given the spells Carve, Carvo, Carvito, and Carviro and tasked with learning their effects. Assume the suffixes serve no purpose other than to give each spell a unique name.

1) First you have to learn how to distinguish the four spell names from each other.
2) Then you can associate their effects.

If the spells were simply named Carve, Carve 2, Carve 3, and Carve 4, you would skip (1) because the difference between (nothing), 2, 3, and 4 is already well defined in your language to the point that you don't have to think about it.

[Hasrat]

Because it works better with the naming system. Lightningra? Boltga? Doesn't really roll off the tongue quite the same.

[Rongway]

Edit: It occurs to me after review that you were actually replying to the post immediately preceding mine, but without quoting it.

Because it works better with the naming system. Lightningra? Boltga? Doesn't really roll off the tongue quite the same.

The traditional FF lightning spells are Thunder, Thundara, Thundaga, Thundaja, though.

[Xlantaa]

I rather not. That is totally a mess. I like how is it, though I prefer use the Fire, Fira, Firaga, Firaja (Spanish is Piro, Piro+, Piro++ and Piro+++). I prefer that instead of having mixed suffix with numbers. You just need read the skill.

[Nestama]

Because it works better with the naming system. Lightningra? Boltga? Doesn't really roll off the tongue quite the same.

I'll agree with Lightning (it has enough syllables), but I think Bolt will work just fine. It'd be far better than what they did with FFXII:TZA's Water spell (that was renamed to Aqua for whatever reason).

[FeliAiko]

Not clear if a spell is a single target or AOE?

That's what tooltips are for. Also striking dummies.