Halp! When to Use DPS Limit Breaks?

[Ceridwenae]

Asking here, because internet search was too varied and often out-of-date:

What I had thought to be the general guidelines of LB usage seem to have been borked slightly (bear in mind I'm just talking dungeons, mostly just the MSQ stuff and a few off-the-cuff Dzamael Darkholds, nothing much beyond that right now). For the record, my limited knowledge of LBs goes thus:

Melee DPS have single target/priority on bosses where adds are not a known issue; used when it won't bugger up your rotation thereby creating DPS loss, and when the lock isn't going to have something eat your face off;

Caster DPS is for when it's more expedient for mobs to be burned and have been placed in a nice circle, and/or tricksy adds in a boss phase which have also been arranged into a nice circle.

Ranged DPS when it's the month of Sundays, but has use on single boss targets if there's no adds to worry about, your other DPS is a caster/asleep/??? and LB says "pls use me, ty"; or... never had any other situations where I've had to think about it, but perhaps if there's adds arranged over a long column space and ...(halp!)?

I'm not concerned about the tank or healer LBs in this basic dungeon content, because if I see those, things have likely gone south already.

I main a bard, so LBs have never been too much of a concern, but as I'm levelling up a DRG (and also using a small army of DRG alts as sacrificial minions), I've seen ranged/caster LBs shot off on the second boss of the dungeon without any prior discussion, and the result has been the LB(2) not charging in full for the last boss. This is bugging me, as I've been more inclined to leave LBs for the melee DPS if I bard, unless they request otherwise.
In one recent instance the LB didn't seem really worth it as far as I could tell (caster LB in Sastasha, where the captain is just with two of his pals and then runs off), and then again in Brayflox (bard on the Tempest Biast; our collective DPS output didn't seem all that, so maybe that's why they did it? I wouldn't BRD LB there, so not sure).

I know these aren't really gamebreakers, but I really thought there was some sort of procedure to follow and these instances don't feel quite right. And so, what you all think some basic rules of LB decorum would be of great use, even if it's for later, harder content (as I go into those things every now and again, albeit only on BRD). I'm fully okay with learning new stuff, especially if I've had it wrong before!

Cheers, and much thanks for any help/advice! <3


TL;DR: When do I DRG (or other melee) LB, when do I use BRD (or MCH) LB, when do I use caster LB, and if the bar doesn't charge up fully to the second bar on the last boss is it okay for me to (quietly) gnash my DRG teeth (just to myself) and just use what's there anyway (damage is damage, after all)?

[wereotter]

As a general guideline, melee use the limit break on bosses once it becomes available. There are exceptions for mechanics, like you want an AOE limit break for the stone golem adds in Hashmal, and you want to leave the LB 3 available for healers in new content.

For general dungeons, as a melee I try to use the LB 2 if it's available when the boss hits about 15% health remaining, so as not to waste any of the damage. If it's only one bar, I'll generally use it at about 5% health remaining. Mostly because I don't want using the limit break to cause me to lose job buffs, but do want to get the maximum damage from the hit as possible.

When it comes to other party content, the priority on single targets should be melee > caster > ranged as the caster LB does more damage to a single target than does the BRD/MCH. So the ranged physical should be used for cases you need an AOE LB and have no caster, or times when the caster LB circle isn't large enough, and the enemies are in a line, like the stone golems in Ridorana before the fight against Construct 7. They're already in a line, and a caster LB can't hit a whole group.

[Rongway]

In dungeons, the most effective use of the LB is to AoE a trash group. For this reason, a melee DD paired with a caster/ranger should avoid using it immediately on the first boss. Consider that an AoE LB1 (just level 1) does more damage than a melee LB3 if there are 7 targets, or more damage than a melee LB2 if there are 4 targets, and you definitely don't get a melee LB3 option in a dungeon anyway, and it is uncommon to built up to LB2 while the last boss still has enough HP that the second bar would even make a difference...and the clear optimum is to AoE a trash pull. Then if it happens to fill up again before the last boss (even if it's immediately before the last boss) to AoE LB the trash again. Then if you manage to build another bar to hit the last boss with, melee LB the last boss.

That said, in any case, you're only shaving off maybe 15-45s from the run. So while the above is best, it's not worth arguing over.

[Frizze]

So the ranged physical should be used for cases you need an AOE LB and have no caster, or times when the caster LB circle isn't large enough, and the enemies are in a line, like the stone golems in Ridorana before the fight against Construct 7. They're already in a line, and a caster LB can't hit a whole group.

Another good spot for that is in World of Darkness. The trash pull after the first boss has 2 sets of summoning circles in straight lines(which respawn halfway through) surrounding a central figure. A caster can hit 2 of the 3 from any of the 4 sets, a ranged can hit all 3. And while i dont know the potency for big shot off hand, id imagine its similar enough to skyshard that if you can hit 5 or 6 targets of a dungeon aoe pull then youre doing more damage then any melee LB would do to a dungeon boss. Harder to aim, but not a waste of time if you can do it.

That said, in any case, you're only shaving off maybe 15-45s from the run. So while the above is best, it's not worth arguing over.

This 1000%. Not using limits at all(or people using them stupidly) doesnt even add up to a full minute lost in most situations(obvious exceptions for newer full group content when a healer LB 3 can save a wipe and redoing the first 5-10 mins of a fight, or specific fights where not using a melee limit means not surviving a boss ultimate). Not worth stressing too much over, certainly not worth arguing about.

[Duskane]

if someone DC's mid fight and you have 2 limit break bars melee use it asap because if they come back Itll just refresh the Limit break bar back to zero

[MPNZ]

It really just depends on the the dungeon and bosses mechanics that you are doing. Hlr lb's are totes needed for like WOD's cloud of darkness and generallly any 24 man raids at release. The DPS DoM lb is great to use when there are a lot of enemies alll bunched up and RNGD DPS lbs are great just because of their range. And, Melee DPS Do the most damage, so basically it's best used when You have to do DPS checks on single targets. Basically everything is as simple and easy to understand what to use what lb and when to use it

[Straynge]

Sorry, I'm not that helpful but I generally don't touch the LB unless I'm told to lol. I mainly run lv. 70 end game dungeons and raids though. It's not very often that we ever need to use LB. Most people have these dungeons and raids down pretty well. I haven't tried the sigmascape Savage yet so that could change things. Usually the tank or healer will say use LB after this or that phase or DPS LB now lol. Just too many dungeons for me to know which one is okay for me to use it and when I should save it for the tank or Healer. I just do what I'm told. The only exception to that is when things go really bad and the boss (usually the last boss) and he's only got a bit of health left then I'll hit it and try to avoid a wipe. Sorry, I've just never gotten that used to using LB or when and if I should use it. It all just depends on the dungeons and mechanics to tell the truth. I've seen Healers use it more frequently. I'm a bard so maybe that's why. I'm rarely called on to use it whereas I see them asking melee dps to hit it more often. I can only remmeber a couple of bosses where everyone wanted me to use it at a certain time.

[Raldo]

Everyone's answers are good, so I won't rehash them. I do have a couple extra things to add, however.

1) I'm generally on bard. If we're on the last boss and the other person is a melee DPS and we've been sitting on LB2 for a good 20+ seconds, I'll go ahead and use it. Far too often I see people just not use it at all.

2) If you have to choose between multiple people (of the same LB type) to execute the LB, it's better to have the weaker/undergeared person use it. This is because LB damage is based off of the sum of the entire party's weapons, so the weaker person would do the same damage as the stronger one, all the while you're letting the stronger person continue to do their DPS rotation instead of being stuck in LB animation. (Can someone please verify this info for me? I don't have an info source on this, and the last time I told it to someone they just laughed at me like I was wrong)


Follow-up question I've been wondering for some time now!

Which LB is stronger (or are they the same damage), Caster or Ranged? Also, if you know the answer to this, where are you getting your info from? I've looked for this answer a couple times and never successfully found it.

[bustamanteverde]

As a PLD it makes me cry inside when DPS do not use a full 2 bar limit break on the boss. I got so fed up I made a macro asking DPS to punch the boss in the face with a LB. I toss the macro out around 25% because by the time DPS use LB boss is around 15%. I use it on my RDM/BLM when melee do not use it and boss is around 20% because some would rather focus on their rotation than finish off the boss who has < 10% HP

[Ceridwenae]

Just to pop back in and say I'm reading everything, and taking it on board. I' will likely be posting again with conclusions thus far, and probably asking more questions. Thanks everyone! <3