Where is the "never before seen content"?

[Shurrikhan]

I'm not convinced FFXIV can. While unofficial censuses cannot be looked at as definitive, they're still telling. Stormblood numbers have dipped to Gordias levels, which is really bad. And I'd attribute it directly to the staggered releases of content and how niche much of its been. FFXIV just doesn't have the playerbase to float like WoW can.

This.

Moreover, XIV doesn't have the constant, floating content that WoW has. Raids and the weekly cache are the only things that can't be grinded as much as the player likes in WoW. And in WoW, PvP is actually very much a thing. That's dozens of hours more repeatable content (that many find enjoyable in itself) that actually helps character power.

I'd say it comes with the noticeable downside of requiring far longer to maintain an alt, but... compared to XIV -- if one were to make the 'mistake' of putting all gear types on a single character, thus cutting your gearing potential into sevenths between NIN, DRG, MNK/SAM, Caster, Healer, Tank, Ranged -- it's still far more lenient, and suffers from none of the unintuitive competition between one's own jobs, let alone in an irretrievable manner over time-gated progression.

[Berethos]

Raids and the weekly cache are the only things that can't be grinded as much as the player likes in WoW.

Last time I played, most everything worth pursuing was locked to at least a daily schedule at the shortest - things like world quests and dungeon bonuses (such as they were). Some of the reputation grinds did allow for completing dungeons tied to them, so there was that...but I don't recall those taking long (most were the second highest rep level by the time you finished questing) so the life of that as a motivator for content was short.

I mean, speaking of current content specifically, dungeons here and dungeons there you can farm as much as you want, mythic dungeons there you can so long as you have keystones to do it (so it's limited, but in a different way), Trials here you can. Daily quests here and once a day, World quests (which are just daily quests without requiring you to accept/turn in) there are once a day.

PvP you can grind Wolf Marks here or Honor Points there...

Are you sure you're not thinking of an older time in WoW (when grinding reps and currency for gear was less restrictive/less based on daily tasks)?

[Remedi]

Are you sure you're not thinking of an older time in WoW (when grinding reps and currency for gear was less restrictive/less based on daily tasks)?

Good time it was mate

[Vstarstruck]

Last time I played, most everything worth pursuing was locked to at least a daily schedule at the shortest - things like world quests and dungeon bonuses (such as they were). Some of the reputation grinds did allow for completing dungeons tied to them, so there was that...but I don't recall those taking long (most were the second highest rep level by the time you finished questing) so the life of that as a motivator for content was short.

I mean, speaking of current content specifically, dungeons here and dungeons there you can farm as much as you want, mythic dungeons there you can so long as you have keystones to do it (so it's limited, but in a different way), Trials here you can. Daily quests here and once a day, World quests (which are just daily quests without requiring you to accept/turn in) there are once a day.

PvP you can grind Wolf Marks here or Honor Points there...

Are you sure you're not thinking of an older time in WoW (when grinding reps and currency for gear was less restrictive/less based on daily tasks)?

PvP there is actually worthwhile doing and is not dragged down by poor servers/netcode. I could level 10- cap off pvp and do different battle grounds at any given level. I think at 20? maybe it is 30 idr, where you have acess to more battle grounds then here at max level, and the entry point of doing pvp there is small and not gated by tedious MSQ. (You have to be so far to be 30 here along with having a job)

There the different battle grounds, the acutall doing the content makes them worthwhile and an alt way of gaining exp. Here it is... dead.. unattractive, and pointless.

I agree with the reasoning but I doubt that ppl were really that sold on ultimate and rival wings. I don't really think pvp are that interested in pvp on this game also the report of 200k extra players have come so late in 4.0 that imho it should've been were the drop should've started, since lucky bancho bases itself on activity they can't just be accounts, also since it was 3.5 months after SB release the effect of a new players shoudl've been reabsorbed by then.

the first week or so people where interested in it, I guess they where "sold" upfront? then after people learned that it sucked, bombed right after.

I will preface my response by saying it's entirely speculative. So please keep that in mind.

That aside, I suspect the upswing in 4.1 came due to players still returning, Ultimate and Rival Wings. Both were hyped exceptionally, especially the latter in conjunction with the PvP changes. Collect all that with an easier Savage and promises of a scaling difficulty, and people had more to keep themselves occupied. Something else you can attribute to increased subs in 4.1 is raiders opting to stick around. After all, they now had Ultimate whereas before, they didn't have a whole lot to do. Additional housing wards also came out around this time. So why the subsequent drop? Rival Wings imploded while Savage being made easier also meant it possessed less longevity. The reception towards Alte Roite and Catastrophe weren't exactly stellar either, at least amongst my own circles. Even casual groups like NEST pointed out Alte Roite was a bit too easy, which says something.

As more players finished Stormblood, I wager many found there wasn't actually all that much available with any lasting appeal. The PvP "improvements" bombed, hard, and 4.1 offered very little outside niche content. Therefore, when 4.2 came around, you saw a noticeable dip—one that only recovered because Eureka was supposed the "next big thing." That brought players back given how much focus was placed on it's innovation. And the divisive response is why those active numbers dropped sharply thereafter.

We may see another upswing around 4.4 because of the Monster Hunter Collab, but I guarantee it will plummet severely come 4.5, especially if we're given no new surprises beyond more Eureka.

Stormblood has basically fed off constant hype yet poor sustainability. Be it Ultimate, PvP, Eureka all the way to something as simple as job gauges. They were all hyped substantially despite only Ultimate paying any real dividends. And if 4.5 does repeat the drought of 3.5, I cannot help wonder if people's faith will have been spent. After all, if they follow predictable patterns, we're looking at a very lengthily drought with virtually nothing to do. Stormblood was supposed to SE's chance to be innovative. Instead, they played it punishingly safe, going so far as to make everything even easier. I just can't see them getting away with a retread of that same philosophy come 5.0.

agreed with all of that.

[Berethos]

PvP there is actually worthwhile doing and is not dragged down by poor servers/netcode.

Irrelevant.

My point in responding was pointing out the discrepancy with the claim that outside of raids and the weekly cache WoW players have a lot that they can grind for as much as they like.

The overall quality of the PvP system (or really any of the content I listed) is a separate debate, and clearly not one that I was engaging in at any point my post to which you replied. Please do try and respond to my actual point, instead of dragging some other discussion in and responding with that.

[Vstarstruck]

Irrelevant.

My point in responding was pointing out the discrepancy with the claim that outside of raids and the weekly cache WoW players have a lot that they can grind for as much as they like.

The overall quality of the PvP system (or really any of the content I listed) is a separate debate, and clearly not one that I was engaging in at any point my post to which you replied. Please do try and respond to my actual point, instead of dragging some other discussion in and responding with that.

No your point is just want to defend SE and act like there is more there and less problems that exist. You do not want to debate that because you know it is a losing battle for you. This game does not have a lot of content and for the content it does have, there is very little, it is that simple. People are tried of the recycling all the little content they do give. If you played HW, you played SB, it is a complete copy/paste the reskin.

WoW's pvp is much better, is my point, my point is you can't simplify it as "farm honor marks there, farm Wolf Marks here". There is more to it then that. So are you defending SE at very turn possible or just missed my point? It is very relevant, you just want to pull that to try skit away from a losing battle.

No one's been stating otherwise. But the fact that, say, some people show up even on the days an amusement park looks like a ghost town doesn't tell you how to milk attendance on both high- and low-pop days.

yeah I know, I just wanted point out to answer "I find it very strange that ppl came into activity 1-2 month into the expansion release and not during" I was explaining why that is. So I do feel "No one's been stating otherwise." is misplaced here.

It was a mistranslation. It wasn't "Never before seen content." It was "Never seen content before."

one, where is proof of this, second, we never got "Never seen content before."

[Nezerius]

Last time I played, most everything worth pursuing was locked to at least a daily schedule at the shortest - things like world quests and dungeon bonuses (such as they were). Some of the reputation grinds did allow for completing dungeons tied to them, so there was that...but I don't recall those taking long (most were the second highest rep level by the time you finished questing) so the life of that as a motivator for content was short.

Early Legion had the Artifact Power grind, a grind that was so ridiculous that it even made people quit, simply because they felt like they didn't have time to do anything else on their main/alt. It was also pretty time-consuming to clear out all the world quests, especially after they added paragon reputations (post-exalted reputation that would give you a reward cache with every 10k reputation).

I mean, speaking of current content specifically, dungeons here and dungeons there you can farm as much as you want, mythic dungeons there you can so long as you have keystones to do it (so it's limited, but in a different way), Trials here you can. Daily quests here and once a day, World quests (which are just daily quests without requiring you to accept/turn in) there are once a day.

Mythic keystones were hardly limited, even more so after they changed them. Before the change, you could just list your party in the group finder and get someone with a mythic keystone, then hope that it wouldn't get depleted (ie: not clearing the dungeon in time). After the change, keystones simply can't deplete anymore, and the one using the keystone simply gets a new one after the run, which would either be upgraded if the party cleared it fast enough, or downgraded by 1 if the party did not (or did not complete it at all).
Emissary quests are more like the daily quests of WoW, while the world quests themselves pop up throughout the day. If you do a bunch of world quests in the morning, you can expect to have a bunch of world quests respawn in the evening.

Are you sure you're not thinking of an older time in WoW (when grinding reps and currency for gear was less restrictive/less based on daily tasks)?

I'd hardly call Legion's grinds more restrictive than previous expansion, considering players had free reign on how much AP they wanted to grind, the titanforging giving any content the possibility of dropping an upgrade, as well as any content done by the player adding to the "bad luck protection" of obtaining any of the legendary items.