Where is the "never before seen content"?

[AncientCrystal]

YoshiP is a liar. I remember way back before 3.4 he said the raids back then had "never before seen" mechanic and it turned out it was just crap QTE where you just jump off the robot with a button push. Riiiiiiiiiight. YoshiP has a way of hyping up upcoming content, only for it to be generic crap.

[JunseiKei]

Perform is a perfect example of poor appeasement. It's only intended for an incredibly niche audience, released in a patch where the entirety of its content was also niche. Casual players had one dungeon, Rabanastre and a beast tribe as content intended to last through the duration of 4.1. That is abysmal, hence why you saw frequent complaints of boredom. 4.3 offers similarly less, though at least Heaven on High attracts a far less niche audience. Unfortunately, it's more than a little lackluster before you reach the higher floors. A general content focus is fine, in theory, but Stormblood as a whole simply has very little to offer unless you like virtually everything. And if we go by the unofficial censuses, the numbers demonstrate a clear lack of interest. Stormblood is seeing 3.1 levels of disinterest, which is staggering if one considers the state of the game back then. While these numbers are by no means definitive, it remains disconcerting all the same, especially as WoW enters is latest expansion. Meanwhile, FFXIV is likely to undergo a significant drought unless something surprising occurs in 4.5.



Contrary popular belief, Gordias Savage did not destroy the game, though it did severely impact the raid scene. Let's review what released between 3.0 to 3.2

Gordias
Thordan EX
Four dungeons
Void Ark
Lords of Verminion
Diadem

This spanned over eight months, the longest delay between updates since FFXIV's relaunch. Both major content updates were essentially DoA, thus casual players had literally nothing new to keep themselves occupied. Meanwhile, the devs openly acknowledged they undertoned Void Ark and severely overtuned Goridas Savage. Bear in mind, unlike any other tier ever released, Gordias was gear locked, making it impossible to clear unless tome weapons were available. Even Ultimate didn't impose such a restriction. Had Gordias been properly tuned, it never would have been the monster it became. Furthermore, the game lacked key components which heavily impacted raid progression: cooldown resets and cross world PF. The former forced players to either pull with necessary abilities still on CD while the latter made recruitment pools swallow at best. Hence why Gilgamesh ballooned.

It's entirely disingenuous to fault Gordias for the destroy of 3.1.

Again, the game is designed around being able to take breaks. It's fine if that doesn't appeal to everyone, too, but as it's been said, "Go and play other games or have a social life. FFXIV will be here when you're ready to come back."

The only other game I can think of with as regular of content additions in place is WoW. Any games I've stuck with for any amount of time take far longer - the second one I can name is Warframe, and that still takes months (longer than FFXIV for less content). This is a large part of where my confusion of the demands being made are coming from. The amount of "content" and "time" needed are not large nor short (to their respective parts), hence why I often wonder if people understand the genre of game and if they're sure they're playing the correct type of game for what is being asked. Also, again, for a generalist MMO; things like Overwatch and the like can't be compared; they're completely different types of games with different focuses.

We can ask for more stuff, but we'd need to also be specific about it. People asked for something like XI's deep dungeons; we got it. People asked for more XI-like content and we got.... Eureka. More skilled players asked for harder fights. We got ultimates. Everything is pretty niche because it's fulfilling requests from people while still doling out things that theoretically please everyone (dungeons?).

Never said Gordias Savage destroyed the game - considering we're currently playing it. I said it left a bad taste in MY mouth and that's why I don't particularly hold Heavensward in good regard. (Also, the bold text in specific is SE doing exactly what players asked. Again, I did not at all imply that this 'destroyed' the game, but when even those top raiders say yeah, this isn't fun, it doesn't exactly come off as the best request they fulfilled.) The proof is right there. You also lumped things together while leaving out other things. Normal raids, savage raids, story, story, story, side quests (like Hildibrand), FC stuff (airships), Bismarck, Ravana, Sephirot? and stuff I don't really want to go and look up for specifics. More things were added than what is being presented. Again, just because it doesn't appeal to you, or even a large amount of people, doesn't discredit its existence or the possibility of it being enjoy by others. Niche or not.

[Eloah]

I'm curious, is WoW available in other regions, in other languages?

Not saying it's an excuse for anything but the money and resources SE has to use to translate does play a bit of a factor. But I don't play/never played WoW so I can't say anything. I do know some people who play and they said l, basically, every annoyance and grievance that is posted on this forum is mirrored on theirs. And admittedly, I have no frame of reference, this is my first MMO. Not a bad start though.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Again, the game is designed around being able to take breaks. It's fine if that doesn't appeal to everyone, too, but as it's been said, "Go and play other games or have a social life. FFXIV will be here when you're ready to come back."

The only other game I can think of with as regular of content additions in place is WoW. Any games I've stuck with for any amount of time take far longer - the second one I can name is Warframe, and that still takes months (longer than FFXIV for less content).

We can ask for more stuff, but we'd need to also be specific about it. People asked for something like XI's deep dungeons; we got it. People asked for more XI-like content and we got.... Eureka. More skilled players asked for harder fights. We got ultimates. Everything is pretty niche because it's fulfilling requests from people while still doling out things that theoretically please everyone (dungeons?).

Never said Gordias Savage destroyed the game - considering we're currently playing it. I said it left a bad taste in MY mouth and that's why I don't particularly hold Heavensward in good regard. (Also, the bold text in specific is SE doing exactly what players asked. Again, I did not at all imply that this 'destroyed' the game, but when even those top raiders say yeah, this isn't fun, it doesn't exactly come off as the best request they fulfilled.) The proof is right there. You also lumped things together while leaving out other things. Normal raids, savage raids, story, story, story, side quests (like Hildibrand), FC stuff (airships) and stuff I don't really want to go and look up for specifics. More things were added than what is being presented. Again, just because it doesn't appeal to you, or even a large amount of people, doesn't discredit its existence or the possibility of it being enjoy by others. Niche or not.

A MMO should not all but require players to take consist breaks, especially not after major patches. Even at a gradual pace, most people will have completed all 4.3 had to offer at release long before HoH finally arrived. And while Yoshida may prattle on about breaks, SE employs systems purposely designed against taking breaks. Do you not think it suspect these staggered release schedule coincide with a month's sub? Or that should you own a house, you're locked into a renewal every 45 days. Eventually, players stop coming back. We're seeing that in the aforementioned census as Stormblood boosts an active playerbase roughly at what 3.1 had. Considering the game is supposed in a better state, with a higher budget, that isn't a good sign.

Dungeons haven't pleased people for a long time. The whole reason we lost one is because they openly acknowledged how "boring" the community perceived them. Fulfilling requests doesn't mean that should be all that's offered. If the majority of your playerbase is bored, niche content like Rival Wings or even Ultimate are not good focal points. Granted, at least Ultimate can justify itself through Twitch viewership. PvP has been on life support for the better portion of three years yet they still keep trying to keep alive the delusional of an E-Sports theme.

You specifically said Gordias was dark times—with no mention of it only referencing yourself. Be that as it may, story is not long term content because it's a "one and done" activity. Even if someone took four months to complete everything, they were greeted with very little substance at endgame. There's a reason 3.1 is considered the worst patch this game has ever released. Furthermore, I did include both raids hence why I said "Gordias." Normal mode takes less than an hour. And Hildibrand was delayed for The Scholasticate initially.

[JunseiKei]

A MMO should not all but require players to take consist breaks, especially not after major patches.

There's no MMO that can keep up with their players.

SE employs systems purposely designed against taking breaks. Do you not think it suspect these staggered release schedule coincide with a month's sub?

I wasn't aware we got a new patch every 30 days.

Or that should you own a house, you're locked into a renewal every 45 days.

Yeah, I will agree that sucks. However, until they link that directly to the Mogstation (will probably raise pitchforks from players) and make houses instanced, I can't see a means to force open world houses to become vacant.

Or add in something like BDO's housing system (in that every house, every player can buy. By default you enter your own home, but you can click on the entrance and visit another player's home).

Considering the game is supposed in a better state, with a higher budget, that isn't a good sign.

I'd argue the game's story has only gotten better. This may, or may not, be because of a supposed increase in budget.

Dungeons haven't pleased people for a long time. The whole reason we lost one is because they openly acknowledged how "boring" the community perceived them..

Part of the reason. The full statement was along the lines of, 'we're dropping down to one dungeon because we know they're boring and the extra time and resources will allow us to create more content.'

Also, despite your statement, that dungeons haven't pleased people and even SE acknowledges they are boring, yet people seem to want to go on and on about losing one dungeon per patch. That's why I'm confused when people complain about dungeons - did you actually want it or are you looking for a means to complain?

Eventually, players stop coming back.

That is unavoidable, even if you sped up the content cycle or managed to create more content. People leave for reasons; some because the game can't keep up. Some for more personal reasons (families, money, you name it). There are players that literally do savage raids and ultimates, then unsub until the next batch because they have no interest in anything else. No matter what content you place in, unless it's something of similar interest to them, you won't get those players back. You can't please everyone 100% of the time; if they decide to never came back, that's their choice.

If the majority of your playerbase is bored, niche content like Rival Wings or even Ultimate are not good focal points.

People like you and I do not have access to actual numbers; SE does. We can't make any actual arguments on these grounds - we can make educated guesses at best, and even then, those are probably hideously inadequate.

PvP has been on life support for the better portion of three years yet they still keep trying to keep alive the delusional of an E-Sports theme.

There are people that genuinely enjoy PvPing. Once upon a time ago, I was in such crowd. It comes with the generalist MMO - you make something for everyone. At least SE does stages and stuff to be enjoyed and on occasion, I've dropped in on the streams to watch fights.

By life support, I'm assuming you mean because it's not a massive focus, much like the Gold Saucer and all of its activities. Despite it being enjoyed by a number of people.

You specifically said Gordias was dark times—with no mention of it only referencing yourself.

Then allow me to clear that up: I was speaking strictly from my point of view.

There's a reason 3.1 is considered the worst patch this game has ever released.

By whom? Obviously, players, but what amount of players? What are your numbers? What are your sources? What is the opinion of all patches to compare against? Do you have numbers across all regions? Is there a comparison to each region showing how they felt about 3.1?

Furthermore, I did include both raids hence why I said "Gordias." Normal mode takes less than an hour. And Hildibrand was delayed for The Scholasticate initially.

Had you been another business trying to sell me a product (like a rival MMO), simply saying something like "Gordias" makes it look like one thing. In reality, it was two different things that please two different crowds of players, then tried to sell me on a hook like 'we have double the content!' while separating your own content if you had a normal and savage version. (Just saying, how it comes across to the reader or whoever else is reading our conversation, changes their perception of things. Probably me just being nitpicky, but that's why I said what I said.)

Yeah, that's details I didn't really want to delve into because I honestly didn't recall when Hildibrand started and I don't feel like digging up each 3.0 to 3.2 patch notes to see what changes were made as well as content made available. I do know you left out three primals, not counting Thordan EX since you did mention that fight. My main point here being you selectively left out information.

[Ameela]

If I were to guess why people feel there's a content lull or that there's nothing to do is actually somewhat the fault of the devs adding more content than was necessary.
Tying the relic weapons to Eureka is what, in my opinion, is causing a portion of the playerbase to lose interest in the game. I'm not bashing it or anything, I like it well enough and I think giving it actually meaningful rewards was a good way to incentivise people to do the content, but as much as we complain about the ARR and HW relics being grindy, recycled content and taking too long, the devs kind of shot themselves in the foot by tying the SB relics to new content.

The ARR and HW relics could be completed by simply playing the game, pretty much anything you did would further your progress on them if only by a tiny bit, which meant that pretty much all kinds of players were able to complete the relics no matter what type of content they enjoyed and how they liked to approach it.
It essentially provided you with a reward for simply playing the game more, you could be doing whatever content you felt like and it would contribute towards a certain goal, that being the relic weapon. So whenever you thought "I don't really have anything in particular for me to do today" you could always just work on your relic.

Now in SB the relic is tied to Eureka, and Eureka is content that not everyone likes. It's also content you have to go out of your way to do. The SB relic is completely seperate from all the other content in the game, whenever you're doing other things you're not contributing towards your progress on the relic, and whenever you're progressing on the relic inside Eureka you're not really doing anything to help you outside aside from earning tomestones.
You can't get your relic by simply playing the game anymore, or rather, you can't get it by playing the game how you want to play. This means that people not interested in Eureka simply won't bother with the relic and people who are indifferent to it will just get whatever relics they're interested in and never go back.
So now the answer to "What should I do when I run out of content?" goes from "Just play the game and do whatever you want and you can work towards this goal" and becomes either "Go do this content you might not be interested in and has almost nothing to do with the rest of the game" or "Just play the game and get nothing for it", which much less people will find appealing.

It's not that there's less to do in SB in terms of actually meaningful content, it's just that they gimped what you used to be able to accomplish by playing the game long-term, so now there's less incentive to keep playing.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

There's no MMO that can keep up with their players.

I never insinuated otherwise. There shouldn't be one where a major patch releases then sits around for six weeks despite the content released being nowhere near long enough to maintain a general interest for that length of time. The whole reason why MMOs, FFXIV included, employ grinds are to combat boredom. Stormblood's relic grind has been relegated to one month before 4.4. Not only does it not exactly last long, the weapon itself is entirely meaningless for progression.

I wasn't aware we got a new patch every 30 days.

Don't be obtuse. You know as well as I these abrupt staggered releases are an attempt to keep subscribed. I won't necessarily fault Yoshida for that though.

I'd argue the game's story has only gotten better. This may, or may not, be because of a supposed increase in budget.

And yet the general consensus is Heavenswards' story was largely superior. I will grant you side story quests have been somewhat better, but again, those are one and done.

That is unavoidable, even if you sped up the content cycle or managed to create more content. People leave for reasons; some because the game can't keep up. Some for more personal reasons (families, money, you name it). There are players that literally do savage raids and ultimates, then unsub until the next batch because they have no interest in anything else. No matter what content you place in, unless it's something of similar interest to them, you won't get those players back. You can't please everyone 100% of the time; if they decide to never came back, that's their choice.

And those same "raid loggers" existed in Heavensward yet the active player numbers did not dip nearly as aggressively as they have in Stormblood. You're dismissing virtually ever potential slight against the game as "well that just happens." It didn't in Heavenswards. Perhaps that's a sign FFXIV should follow WoW's resurgence with Legion come the next expansion and not simply sit on all these complaints. Which is why feedback and criticism is crucial. Hand-waving everything aside results in a repeat of the same mistakes—ones that won't be as easily forgiven a second time. If Stormblood's numbers are suffering now and nothing changes; just a purple coat of purple atop red. Those same numbers could decline even further.

People like you and I do not have access to actual numbers; SE does. We can't make any actual arguments on these grounds - we can make educated guesses at best, and even then, those are probably hideously inadequate.

Indeed, nor did I claim otherwise. That doesn't mean those estimations are entirely inaccurate or meaningless either. Considering complaints about lackluster content and little innovation are far more commonplace nowadays than two years prior, we can reasonably assume a decent portion of players aren't thrilled by some of the decisions made for Stormblood. It's not definitive, of course, but it shouldn't be ignored either.

There are people that genuinely enjoy PvPing. Once upon a time ago, I was in such crowd. It comes with the generalist MMO - you make something for everyone. At least SE does stages and stuff to be enjoyed and on occasion, I've dropped in on the streams to watch fights.

By life support, I'm assuming you mean because it's not a massive focus, much like the Gold Saucer and all of its activities. Despite it being enjoyed by a number of people.

No, I mean that it dies within weeks. Outside of the Garo event and Stormblood's initial launch, PvP activity has been staggeringly low. So much so the devs were embarrassed on their own Live Stream with an hour long queue. Rival Wings completely dropped off within two weeks, and how struggles to see queues despite people actively advertising on reddit. There really is no way to argue PvP has not been a failure in numerous ways. Being a generalist MMO does not mean you want content so decidedly unpopular it sees little activity.

By whom? Obviously, players, but what amount of players? What are your numbers? What are your sources? What is the opinion of all patches to compare against? Do you have numbers across all regions? Is there a comparison to each region showing how they felt about 3.1?

Virtually ever census conducted cites 3.1 as FFXIV's worst patch. Of course, it's largely subjective, but considering the overwhelming dislike of Diadem and LoV, Gordias Savage destroying the raid scene and the developers opting not to delay a patch like that again, it's not difficult to surmise 3.1 was not well received.

Had you been another business trying to sell me a product (like a rival MMO), simply saying something like "Gordias" makes it look like one thing. In reality, it was two different things that please two different crowds of players, then tried to sell me on a hook like 'we have double the content!' while separating your own content if you had a normal and savage version. (Just saying, how it comes across to the reader or whoever else is reading our conversation, changes their perception of things. Probably me just being nitpicky, but that's why I said what I said.)

Did I really need to add in brackets (Normal and Savage). I am neither a business nor am I selling you a product. I'm speaking to someone acutely aware of the terms. So yes, that is needlessly nitpicky. Regardless, I do admit to having forgotten to list Ravana and Bismarck, though the overall point remains. Given how poorly the major content releases were received outside 3.0 proper, there remained very little to do for an extended point of time as 3.1 had been delayed longer than their usual schedule.

[Vstarstruck]

There's no MMO that can keep up with their players.

Oh really? given I played ffxi for 8 years, never felt a "copy and paste" feel (outside specific monsters and level grinding but that is minor as hell) ARR on its own was getting tiring of its formula (the tomestone thing) but at least back in ARR, each 24 man raid felt new and.. I really did not do coils then. I was new to the game as well so I might have a skewed view on it.

HW felt it was copy/pasting a lot of things from ARR, while introducing new ideas, the most successful one being palace of the dead. See this is why i called FFXI copy/paste monsters minor, because the endgame progressing kept changing while keeping older gear still relevant so you always had something to do. FFXI endgame did not feel like an endless tredmill of out dating stuff 2-3 months at a time, everything had meaning. you play a bit each day to get that leet gear then you move on the next one.

Now comes SB, this is literately xzibit now. "Yo dawg, I hurd u like HW, so we are giving you HW again so you can do HW while you do HW. I never, never, never seen any other game do this much copy/paste as far as structure.

This is what it is like going though SB's content:
https://youtu.be/La9nLBfH44c?t=8
1.0 = copy and pasting terrain
ARR+ copy and pasting full content.
Id rather have 1.0

Tying the relic weapons to Eureka is what, in my opinion, is causing a portion of the playerbase to lose interest in the game. I'm not bashing it or anything, I like it well enough and I think giving it actually meaningful rewards was a good way to incentivise people to do the content, but as much as we complain about the ARR and HW relics being grindy, recycled content and taking too long, the devs kind of shot themselves in the foot by tying the SB relics to new content.

The ARR and HW relics could be completed by simply playing the game, pretty much anything you did would further your progress on them if only by a tiny bit, which meant that pretty much all kinds of players were able to complete the relics no matter what type of content they enjoyed and how they liked to approach it.
It essentially provided you with a reward for simply playing the game more, you could be doing whatever content you felt like and it would contribute towards a certain goal, that being the relic weapon. So whenever you thought "I don't really have anything in particular for me to do today" you could always just work on your relic.

Now in SB the relic is tied to Eureka, and Eureka is content that not everyone likes. It's also content you have to go out of your way to do. The SB relic is completely seperate from all the other content in the game, whenever you're doing other things you're not contributing towards your progress on the relic, and whenever you're progressing on the relic inside Eureka you're not really doing anything to help you outside aside from earning tomestones.
You can't get your relic by simply playing the game anymore, or rather, you can't get it by playing the game how you want to play. This means that people not interested in Eureka simply won't bother with the relic and people who are indifferent to it will just get whatever relics they're interested in and never go back.
So now the answer to "What should I do when I run out of content?" goes from "Just play the game and do whatever you want and you can work towards this goal" and becomes either "Go do this content you might not be interested in and has almost nothing to do with the rest of the game" or "Just play the game and get nothing for it", which much less people will find appealing.

It's not that there's less to do in SB in terms of actually meaningful content, it's just that they gimped what you used to be able to accomplish by playing the game long-term, so now there's less incentive to keep playing.

That is part of the problem, a small part of the full picture, but yes it is a factor. To make matters worse is how long it was delayed. They gave an almost no content area that was delayed for pretty much no reason. This coupled with dev overhype cased a lot of problems on player moral for the future course of the game.

I will disagree with the idea of "adding more content than was necessary" however, the problem is also lack of content + copy/paste old expansion structures.

[JunseiKei]

I never insinuated otherwise. There shouldn't be one where a major patch releases then sits around for six weeks despite the content released being nowhere near long enough to maintain a general interest for that length of time. The whole reason why MMOs, FFXIV included, employ grinds are to combat boredom. Stormblood's relic grind has been relegated to one month before 4.4. Not only does it not exactly last long, the weapon itself is entirely meaningless for progression.

Why shouldn't it? It should be less because there's stuff players don't want to do? There's players that can play this game like a job and do "everything?" No 'grinds' are a result of something called artifical scarcity. It's to enlongate the time you invest into a game that incorporates it. The relics have always been meaningless for progression. Up until it's a few months before the next expansion. Then they become BiS. When it happened sooner than that, raiders complained their time spent in raids, learning the fights, was valued little as the relics became BiS 'too soon.'

Don't be obtuse. You know as well as I these abrupt staggered releases are an attempt to keep subscribed. I won't necessarily fault Yoshida for that though.

I'm not being obtuse. I was saying, in not quite so many words, I don't see how you can make this claim when patches are not even that frequent. So to say there is, apparently, new content enough to keep your subscription going, or lasts long enough to keep that subscription going, I don't understand the complaints being made about the contents' release or longevity. It's one or the other; it doesn't suddenly change just to suit a part of another argument.

And yet the general consensus is Heavenswards' story was largely superior. I will grant you side story quests have been somewhat better, but again, those are one and done.

Please pre-emptively provide links to your sources for such claims. Otherwise, I shall take this as a personal claim, perhaps along with concurring agreements with people you personally keep in touch with.

Still, this is opinion, changing from person to person. I doubt either of us are in a job that can sit back, unbiased and rate the expansions like a professional, basing on music score, battles, story, etc.

And those same "raid loggers" existed in Heavensward yet the active player numbers did not dip nearly as aggressively as they have in Stormblood. You're dismissing virtually ever potential slight against the game as "well that just happens." It didn't in Heavenswards. Perhaps that's a sign FFXIV should follow WoW's resurgence with Legion come the next expansion and not simply sit on all these complaints. Which is why feedback and criticism is crucial. Hand-waving everything aside results in a repeat of the same mistakes—ones that won't be as easily forgiven a second time. If Stormblood's numbers are suffering now and nothing changes; just a purple coat of purple atop red. Those same numbers could decline even further.

Ugh. I had to rewrite this response so many times because I started writing novels on just this section. Sorry for the following shorthand:

I'm just being realistic. You literally cannot please everyone all of the time. People will leave, sometimes for something not even the fault of the game. It's not being dismissive. I can't draw a comparison to WoW, never touched it, so I don't know what you're trying to get across to me with that. Feedback and criticism is crucial, agreed, but listening to all of it is folly and may incur unfavorable outcomes (example: want faster content cycle or just more stuff per content cycle; need more people to do this; money doesn't grow on trees and something like increase sub fee to cover costs - are players still happy? Probably not, but hey! Their demands were heeded, that's all that matters). Linking general active players to simply what the content cycles is dangerous and probably misleading (please follow my reasoning). I can't recall what games came out during the span of Heavensward (maybe getting into Warframe near the end of Heavensward? Holy shit The War Within). I know from the start of Stormblood, Resident Evil 7, Fate Grand Order, Granblue, Monster Hunter World, Super Mario Odyssey, Black Desert Online releasing Lahn and constant events, Warframe releasing a new story arch after 2 years (worth it) that have utterly obliterated mine and my raid members' times. Has nothing to do with XIV's patch cycle, we're just gamers being gamers.

Indeed, nor did I claim otherwise. That doesn't mean those estimations are entirely inaccurate or meaningless either. Considering complaints about lackluster content and little innovation are far more commonplace nowadays than two years prior, we can reasonably assume a decent portion of players aren't thrilled by some of the decisions made for Stormblood. It's not definitive, of course, but it shouldn't be ignored either.

Even innocent claims of 'a large portion of the community' can askews another's view on what may be a completely opposite in truth. Consider it a caution.

I chalk up more complaints to SE doing more 'risks' / fulfilling requests. I've seen just as much complaints about Eureka as I have about Ultimate. Heavensward, I do recall people complaining about Hildibrand, to stop with the quests. I'm glad SE kept making them; absolutely love the quests.

No, I mean that it dies within weeks. Outside of the Garo event and Stormblood's initial launch, PvP activity has been staggeringly low. So much so the devs were embarrassed on their own Live Stream with an hour long queue. Rival Wings completely dropped off within two weeks, and how struggles to see queues despite people actively advertising on reddit. There really is no way to argue PvP has not been a failure in numerous ways. Being a generalist MMO does not mean you want content so decidedly unpopular it sees little activity.

Well, that is embarrassing.

So you'd rather have no content for those that enjoy PvP. PvP additions are already fairly rare, with job balancing being the most frequently done things to the mode.

Virtually ever census conducted cites 3.1 as FFXIV's worst patch. Of course, it's largely subjective, but considering the overwhelming dislike of Diadem and LoV, Gordias Savage destroying the raid scene and the developers opting not to delay a patch like that again, it's not difficult to surmise 3.1 was not well received.

I didn't see this census, so you'd only know about it if you were told about it, right? Not that many go to Reddit, or wherever this census was hosted.

My point here is trying to be a vocal minority does not equate to anything other than a number of people being very loud about something they dislike. Even if it is as you say, not well received, that's OK, but I don't think either of us nor other players have access to an even remotely accurate way to gauge this and can only generalize it by what we are perceiving. It's not a dismissal or discredit, it's just something to consider and what I think anyone comes up with a "largely/major/most/" player/community/people thing gets said.

Did I really need to add in brackets (Normal and Savage). I am neither a business nor am I selling you a product. I'm speaking to someone acutely aware of the terms. So yes, that is needlessly nitpicky. Regardless, I do admit to having forgotten to list Ravana and Bismarck, though the overall point remains. Given how poorly the major content releases were received outside 3.0 proper, there remained very little to do for an extended point of time as 3.1 had been delayed longer than their usual schedule.

Yes, because while I and others may be aware of what has and hasn't been included, others will absolutely take conversations at face value and then spread misinformation. I'll keep to my being nitpickiness. (And Sephirot; he dropped right in 3.2).

~snip~

Didn't play XI; didn't have a computer good enough and was still on dial-up. Played other games that kept older armor relevant. I suppose that works for some games, but didn't XI also had gear that took literal years to farm? Now THAT sounds like an uphill climb as a fresh player. For how XIV is set up (IE: not a massive commitment to play and doesn't require constant upkeep), something like this really doesn't work. I get the appeal and why some people would want it. I'm glad XIV didn't adopt it. But hey, we're people on two opposing sides of what we enjoy.

I feel we're playing two different games here. Structure, you mean like content patches or things like in game environments? If you mean environments... yeah... you and I are playing two different games.... The video links to 1.0, uploaded in 2010. No idea what 1.0 even had in it at that point.

I do know XIV 1.0 and XI had the same teams.

[Vstarstruck]

Didn't play XI; didn't have a computer good enough and was still on dial-up. Played other games that kept older armor relevant. I suppose that works for some games, but didn't XI also had gear that took literal years to farm? Now THAT sounds like an uphill climb as a fresh player. For how XIV is set up (IE: not a massive commitment to play and doesn't require constant upkeep), something like this really doesn't work. I get the appeal and why some people would want it. I'm glad XIV didn't adopt it. But hey, we're people on two opposing sides of what we enjoy.

I feel we're playing two different games here. Structure, you mean like content patches or things like in game environments? If you mean environments... yeah... you and I are playing two different games.... The video links to 1.0, uploaded in 2010. No idea what 1.0 even had in it at that point.

I do know XIV 1.0 and XI had the same teams.

No, that was in regards to specific type of special weapons that was meant to be super hard to obtain, they where meant more as trophies. A skilled and knowledge user with a second best or 3rd best could outperform them (like PLD shield regarded as "best" a gear change happy user could hit the caps it bought, it had to be buffed to have more of a reason to obtain because of that. Basically a PLD shield allowed you be "lazy" more then improving your performance to great degree) and in a lot of caster classes they where complete junk as far as performance, WHM, SMN, BLM, RDM (endgame group content it was useless) so on, brd was another highly ranked one. (Oh I should explain brd was a pure buffer job, highly demanded, so much so they had strats around dropping and inviting 3 brds to be rotated in and out parties to "zerg rush" hard content, cor also played a part in this. relic horn allowed +2 buff to all songs, this was big early level 75 as no instruments buffed ballad back then. it became to loss its usefulness as more and more stuff was released, again equip changes making it obsolete. Later upgrades made it useful again, I do not think a +4 ballad instrument exists. Also the new abyssa relics from my understanding was more preferred letting a brd put up 3 songs (fully upgraded allows 2 more songs over base, totaling 4)

Also I know grinds, I do not mind grinds, clearly, I actually earned one of those weapons in question. Those things where so infrequently earned back in the day, the user base made a database of sorts of who owned what, I think something of the likes of 120-150 players across all servers had one before FFXI entered easy mode. What I hate is a repeated treadmill of reskined content.

But that is before abyssa, now you can get them solo in a shortish amount of time ( wouldn't know exactly, I am not apart of new FFXI)

1.0 vid was only there to show the copy/paste the terrain they did, that is how the structure of progress feels to me now for ARR+, copy and paste, over and over, nothing new.

One thing i want to add to this, I first played ffxi on (at the time) outdated computer, on a modem. You would get lag jitter ofc, it was not perfect but honestly? it reacted to lag MUCH better then this game does.