24 man raid loot system

[ValentineSnow]

You got rid of the greed only rule and we thank you for that. But the 24 man raid loot system still suffers from some really annoying issues that I feel could be easily resolved.

1. People leaving once they get their loot: This is annoying when someone gets their drop from the first boss then leaves the group. This means now someone new is gonna join, possibly someone who you or someone in your party now has to compete with for their drop.

2. Loot distribution timing: If it's getting close to reset and I'm getting to that point where I just want to lot on anything, it's a pain in the ass if the lot I want drops from the final boss... If my lot dropped from the first boss I could say "oh well, no luck, now I'll just lot everything the rest of the run". But if my lot drops from the last boss, my choices are: lot everything and shoot myself when my piece drops from the last boss and I'm locked out. Or pass everything and shoot myself when my piece doesn't drop from the last boss.

But I think these are easily fixed issues and all SE has to do is look at how backwards their design is.

They have those fluff items from the final boss like the minion and music rolls, these are supposed to be the incentive to keep people playing til the final boss. But NO ONE has ever said to themselves "I got my loot, but maybe I'll stay for my chance to lot the triple triad card...".

Instead of having the fluff items drop from the final boss, have them drop from the individual bosses. 1st boss: music roll, 2nd boss: triple triad card, 3rd boss: minion.

Then from the final boss have it drop 2 full sets of gear per alliance. 2 feet, legs, belt, hands, body and head pieces. But the pieces would be for random jobs. E.G. a loot list would look like this:
boots of maiming, boots of fending
trousers of healing, trousers of striking
belt of aiming, belt of casting
gloves of fending, gloves of casting
shirt of healing, shirt of scouting
hat of striking, hat of maiming

This would strike a balance between making people run it multiple times (since their specific piece might not drop first try) and getting SOMETHING before reset (since more gear will drop than there are party members at the end of the run). It would encourage people to stay til the end since the thing that they actually want is there and people who are after a specific loot but don't have time to be picky won't get sophie's choiced since all the loot drops together.

[KisaiTenshi]

The thing is, you want everyone to play it to the end, so the only logical answer is to have all the loot at the end and not at any of the mid-bosses.

Ideally, the loot system could be improved in a way where the loot rolls can be changed (eg, "I would like this item, but not if this other item drops") based on what order you "need" on them. So you need on the items you want the most, greed on the rest, and the items are doled out in the order of most "needs" , then most "greeds"

[Ameela]

Why is this an issue though?
There's already more than enough incentive to not leave the instance before it's done, namely that it will take less time than the 30-minute lockout you get for leaving early, and don't forget the fact that most people running it only do it once a week for the coin and cluster, which you need to stay until the end for.
Secondly it's a 24-man, one person leaving doesn't have THAT much of an impact, even if it sucks. Hell you could say this is a bigger problem for 4-man dungeons, which outside of roulette give you no incentive to stay until the end if you get your loot early AND if one person leaves you lose 1/4th of your team, rather than 1/24th.

[BillyKaplan]

Hell you could say this is a bigger problem for 4-man dungeons

Dungeons are much faster and simpler to run and aren't gated one item per week. You can theoretically get every drop in the run, whereas in the 24 player raid it's a gamble - do I roll now and lose out on a piece of gear that might not even drop?
There's the matter where if you're running DPS, you have up to 4 other people you can roll against, whereas in a dungeon it's a maximum of one.
Then throw in how even if you think it's only those 4 people, well oh goodie, one of them rolled on loot so it's down to 3, nope, they ran and it's back to four people again because another caster joined.
It's all the more frustrating when you think you're safe because you're the only caster, but then another caster joins and takes your gear from you.
All of these risks exist in dungeon in theory, but they're really not as painful as in a 24 player raid.

Also, between us, when was the last time you saw a loot and scoot in a dungeon?

[Tiaque]

You got rid of the greed only rule and we thank you for that. But the 24 man raid loot system still suffers from some really annoying issues that I feel could be easily resolved.

1. People leaving once they get their loot: This is annoying when someone gets their drop from the first boss then leaves the group. This means now someone new is gonna join, possibly someone who you or someone in your party now has to compete with for their drop.

2. Loot distribution timing: If it's getting close to reset and I'm getting to that point where I just want to lot on anything, it's a pain in the ass if the lot I want drops from the final boss... If my lot dropped from the first boss I could say "oh well, no luck, now I'll just lot everything the rest of the run". But if my lot drops from the last boss, my choices are: lot everything and shoot myself when my piece drops from the last boss and I'm locked out. Or pass everything and shoot myself when my piece doesn't drop from the last boss.

But I think these are easily fixed issues and all SE has to do is look at how backwards their design is.

They have those fluff items from the final boss like the minion and music rolls, these are supposed to be the incentive to keep people playing til the final boss. But NO ONE has ever said to themselves "I got my loot, but maybe I'll stay for my chance to lot the triple triad card...".

Instead of having the fluff items drop from the final boss, have them drop from the individual bosses. 1st boss: music roll, 2nd boss: triple triad card, 3rd boss: minion.

Then from the final boss have it drop 2 full sets of gear per alliance. 2 feet, legs, belt, hands, body and head pieces. But the pieces would be for random jobs. E.G. a loot list would look like this:
boots of maiming, boots of fending
trousers of healing, trousers of striking
belt of aiming, belt of casting
gloves of fending, gloves of casting
shirt of healing, shirt of scouting
hat of striking, hat of maiming

This would strike a balance between making people run it multiple times (since their specific piece might not drop first try) and getting SOMETHING before reset (since more gear will drop than there are party members at the end of the run). It would encourage people to stay til the end since the thing that they actually want is there and people who are after a specific loot but don't have time to be picky won't get sophie's choiced since all the loot drops together.

Put in 3hr penalty timer to resolve most of this, will only apply if the player leaves after getting a drop. If no drop but he leaves anyway, 1 hour timer.

That would make things fair, but alot of people will complain and say "But but but what if I have an emergency!" or "This wont work cuz of blah blah blah" so, here it comes.

=)

[Wiccan026]

Put in 3hr penalty timer to resolve most of this, will only apply if the player leaves after getting a drop. If no drop but he leaves anyway, 1 hour timer.

That would make things fair, but alot of people will complain and say "But but but what if I have an emergency!" or "This wont work cuz of blah blah blah" so, here it comes.

=)

I'm pretty sure folks would just find a way to "accidentally" shut down their window/app or whatever in order to be offline and than you'd be forced to kick them... they wouldn't get any penalty by getting kicked but our kick timer is time locked once we use it... so if we have to use it way to much in order to keep adjusting things (although sure that's a very unlikely scenario but still) than we could end up being stuck with an offline preson.

[Vaer]

There really isn't any way to fix it completely without a real overhaul. People would just in progress fish instead if you weight more loot on the final boss. They already get the tomes if they in progress to the end now they would get even more chances at gear.

Putting a giant penalty wouldn't fix anything it would just make it potentially even more annoying, people will just dc or sit there afk until you kick them. Honestly, them dropping out is preferable since you just get a rep and keep going than getting into a situation where they occupy a slot doing nothing until they are kicked.

[Hamada]

You got rid of the greed only rule and we thank you for that. But the 24 man raid loot system still suffers from some really annoying issues that I feel could be easily resolved.

1. People leaving once they get their loot: This is annoying when someone gets their drop from the first boss then leaves the group. This means now someone new is gonna join, possibly someone who you or someone in your party now has to compete with for their drop.

No idea on what can be done but I can explain why people will do this and why I will never do a repeat full run for the same week.

If you do it once for the week and get no drop, then doing it again means getting the drop and leaving. There is no incentive to stay, it is boring or frustrating to do to simply spam, depending who you get grouped with. It is mentally exhausting to spend around 30 mins per run carrying healers as a DPS that can raise, so people do not really want to keep doing it and stay. It is not fun, in other words, dealing with the huge skill gap, something SE thought they would change with these meters, and yet had no impact.

There really isn't any way to fix it completely without a real overhaul. People would just in progress fish instead if you weight more loot on the final boss. They already get the tomes if they in progress to the end now they would get even more chances at gear.

Putting a giant penalty wouldn't fix anything it would just make it potentially even more annoying, people will just dc or sit there afk until you kick them. Honestly, them dropping out is preferable since you just get a rep and keep going than getting into a situation where they occupy a slot doing nothing until they are kicked.

yeah that is exactly what i was getting at

[Kurando]

So basically OP you are complaining that if someone could leave, the replacement could be the same job (or type as you i.e. melee) and that you then have to compete for potential loot? I mean this happens in a ton of dungeons not just 24man, and they have just as much right to roll on that loot considering they did accept to be the replacement.

As for loot distribution, you have two options, either enter with a pre-formed party that way you can allocate stuff however you want, or just ask. Seriously ask your group if they are willing to pass on something you might want, granted it doesn't always work but you have absolutely nothing to lose by trying as most players will be happy to cooperate.

[Cabalabob]

So basically OP you are complaining that if someone could leave, the replacement could be the same job (or type as you i.e. melee) and that you then have to compete for potential loot? I mean this happens in a ton of dungeons not just 24man, and they have just as much right to roll on that loot considering they did accept to be the replacement.

As for loot distribution, you have two options, either enter with a pre-formed party that way you can allocate stuff however you want, or just ask. Seriously ask your group if they are willing to pass on something you might want, granted it doesn't always work but you have absolutely nothing to lose by trying as most players will be happy to cooperate.

To your first point, it’s not about the replacement getting loot, it’s about the person leaving. If you leave mid duty why do you deserve any right to loot? That would be like leaving a trial after a phase transition and getting a reward for it. You should only get loot upon completion of the duty. And yes you can absolutely apply the same logic to dungeons, but it’s not as wide spread of an issue with dungeons (I’ve personally never seen a loot and scoot in a dungeon but it happens every week in 24 man raids).

To the second point, I think you misunderstood what they’re saying. If you want, say, the body piece that drops only from yiazmat, you have to pass loot on every boss until the final one or you’re locked out from that loot when you get there. While if someone wants boots that drop from Famfrit and they don’t drop, they can still lot on loot from every boss after Famfrit, just to get something. So the person who wants the body can’t have a chance at any other loot if their thing doesn’t drop, while the person who wants the boots can. Pre-made groups don’t change that.