Revelations from Patch 4.3

[Anonymoose]

Traditions traditions traditions.

For anybody who's new to this process, we've organically fallen into this habit of always making a Patch Day freak-out thread where we give our knee-jerk feedback and trade a few points so we don't just go spoiler-bombing the rest of our open threads in the first 24 hours. By discussing each story arc in its own collapsible spoiler box, we ensure that people can take part in the thread without fear even before they've finished everything.

EXAMPLE

Like so.

MAIN SCENARIO

Slow to start, but good clean-up of leftover unknowns. Gosetsu-as-he-was hasn't necessarily survived; he's grown very weak. Asahi's parents...were...both alive and well. Though the hints about the upcoming primal were few, the white copper mirror indeed led directly to Tsukuyomi. I wasn't at all confident that's where it was headed, but I didn't have any other ideas with names, either, lol.

Asahi's angle was forecast a malm out, however, as Elidibus wouldn't undermine his own plans (4.0 makes little sense if he's not setting Eorzea and Garlemald up with balanced potential). It figures he'd have Zenos's corpse, but how we got there was a run ride that I didn't try to predict beyond that and am glad for it.

With regard to Tsukuyomi:
One, it was really nice seeing the old eclipse motif for a primal summoning, again - and a lunar, at that! Also, Gosetsu showing up as a moment of defiance against her inner torment was a wonderful little flourish.

One thing I did notice, however, was that they seem to have delicately danced around the previous seeming-inconsistencies with Thordan by weaving in a bit of the ambiguity of Susano's summoning. Recall that that Nabirales suggested that you need the Echo to host a deiform.

Nabriales
And so the vessel withdraws. A predictable outcome.

「超える力」を持つ者への「神」の憑依。
People with the 「exceeding power」 (Echo) can become possessed of 「gods」.

Und so entschwindet das Gefäß. Es war vorherzusehen.
And so the vessel vanishes. This was foreseen.

Les humains doués de l'Écho peuvent donc servir de vaisseaux pour l'influx divin...
The humans gifted with the Echo can thus serve as vessels for the divine influx...

Thordan made it feel as though there was something we weren't told. Was Nabriales wrong? Did Elidibus give him the Echo a la the Sahagin elder? Sources even contradict each other over whether the Knights of the Round are primals summoned ahead of Thordan, or Thordan was summoned first and they are extensions of his blessing rather than primals themselves. Their ability to shapeshift back and forth and not be tempered - including Thordan if he blessed them at all in the first place - is something I've struggled to understand.

Yotsuyu, meanwhile, tapped a bit of Susano's ambiguity and merged with a primal by way of a relic associated with kami. She wielded a primal as herself, like Ysayle and Thordna, but became consumed by it and - according to "Zenos" - essentially tempered herself. As far as the previous seeming-inconsistency goes, it doesn't solve it or worsen it, but seems to deliberately tread water and dance around it. It's such a small thing, but I noticed it, so I said something, lol.

Anyroad...That was actually a satisfying way to play the amnesia card, which is often terribly lame. In the end, the avoided an obvious fake-out, or a convenient relapse while staying more or less in consistency with the science of dissociative amnesia and/or psychogenic fugue. She was really Tsuyu, the almost let go of Yotsuyu, and then...well, you can only hope for so much. She died as her best narrative self, which is what I always hope for.

That Gosetsu is the only one to weep for her on either side I think does a lot to retrospectively justify the oddness of their time together since 4.0. A good ending makes or breaks a strange middle...(which brings us back to Zenos in a moment...).

Maxima's behavior as a Populares, even shorn of Asahi's front, was quite refreshing. It's wishful thinking to assume we don't have swords left to cross with the Empire and it's all pleasant gray from here on out, but that they're all villains is equally absurd.

Alphinaud going straight to the capital, though, caught me very off-guard. I thought we might use the embassies in Kugane. I thought we might have a limited war on Ilsabard to turn the tides. I thought Varis might go down hard. Where is this going? It's got my attention.

Back to Zenos. With regard to Robe Man in the capital, I was glad to see Y'shtola and Alphinaud were speaking sense. Even if they were wrong, the first suspect should obviously be Ascian possession. As far as we know, you can't Echo into a mortally-wounded vessel, and only Ascians and voidsent (and certain Tactics Ogre homages) have any talent with raising corpses. I was relieved to see Robe Man talking like Elidibus and clearly pushing Varis's boundaries.

I did not expect to see that actual Zenos had likely Echo-leapt into a Resistance fighter. That certainly makes things more interesting. 4.3 was an ending worthy of the oddities in the post-Stormblood Doman arc. Can 4.4+ convince me that continuing to use Zenos was a good idea? Why did we need this? The new ingredients make me a bit more optimistic; they didn't just blame Resonance-based new rules and stage a Crown Prince Comeback.

Regarding the Events in the Burn:

WOOOOOOOOOOOO--That is all.

[silentwindfr]

ivalice quest did drop a small info i did appreciate

where we learn about dalmasca population. we learn that beastman tribes exist there: Vaanga, Seeq and...Viera! what confirm them existance in FF14 ^^

[Viconia]

I like the QoL changes, but I'm actually just annoyed and disappointed with what I've seen in the MSQ so far.

It's like they (MSQ spoilers)

killed them off in the cheapest and most predictable way just to show that they aren't afraid of doing so.. to what were
a) a minor but very engaging character we've basically only been allowed to see a few minutes of (I really wanted more of those amazing melt-downs when everything they planned for came crashing down later)
and
b) someone who was already supposed to have died but was finally becoming interesting and nice to see on screen
I expected Yotsuyu to be retired this time around, but Asahi.. really? Apart from the Xaela clans who don't get any noteworthy spotlight anymore they were the only two characters that were both really interesting and entertaining to me this expansion.
The pacing for what happened to Grynewaht was a lot better even though he was a much less interesting/complex character. It still had oomph to it.
Now it's just 'hey i lived btw' blood knight barbie-man left..
I don't understand how people like Zenos apart from his looks.

[Theodric]

Main Scenario Quests:

Yotsuyu reverting to her original self was refreshing. She made a lasting impression because of her ruthlessness, after all. We got to see a glimpse of what she could have been like had things been different - but Hydaelyn is a cruel world and she was but another to be chewed up and spat out by those who could and should have been there to support her. Asahi proved again just how unhinged and manipulative he could be and his arrogance was his undoing. I doubt anyone will mourn him and with his death there's closure for Yotsuyu. She got to kill the three people who tormented her the most with her own hands.Maxima, as I expected, is an ally. I got the same vibes from him as I did Regula. The instanced battle alongside him from Alphinaud's perspective was a neat touch. I hope we see more of that moving forward.

Zenos and his supporters appear to be the cause of much of the tension within Garlemald. Yet in this case, we're dealing with Elidibus possessing the Crown Prince. So it's a case of Elidibus not necessarily being of any benefit to Garlemald but simply using them as a means to spawn conflict and revive Zodiark.

The Emperor is no fool, I suspect. It's interesting that Alphinaud is going to Garlemald given that he has already met Varis...if the pair recognise each other, it could very well pave the way towards a shaky alliance.

As for the mysterious 'Shadowhunter'...could it be Gaius? I suspect it is, judging by his evasive tone and goals. That leaves the question as to how, exactly, he survived.

Then there's the matter of the Elezen shown towards the end of the MSQ's. Judging by his words, he could very well be the 'real' Zenos hijacking a body through the Echo. Or simply another of his devoted disciples. Regardless, it's interesting that Asahi is fallen and yet his two associates are the ones to play a part in the story moving forward. That's a genuine, but refreshing surprise.

[KageTokage]

I predicted a lot of the stuff that happened in the MSQ this time around:

Namely, Asahi instigating the summoning with Yotsuyu, then using it as an excuse to call off the peace treaty, as well as "Zenos" actually being an Ascian puppet. I couldn't ascertain what motive the real Zenos would've had for a primal summoning, but him being an Ascian would've made the intent a lot more obvious and his little line about how war is what the empire needs convinced me in advance.

I'm glad Yotsuyu was the one who ended up putting Asahi down after he tried to play her like that, but it didn't really occur to me that he could've been viewed as the root cause of all her woes, him having been chosen as the favored child of her step-parents over her.

It turning out that Zenos actually IS alive despite not being in his own body did surprise me a bit, though as I might've expected, he's still obsessed with us (Which is probably the main reason the actions of the puppet Zenos came across as unusual to me, as the real deal has always shown himself to be rather simple-minded in his motives).

I was also surprised at that MSQ duty at the end, and hope they have more like it in the future. If there was any doubt before, I think it's now a given that Garlemald is where we're headed in 5.0, with the Shadowhunter having shown that it's an Ascian-infested cesspit.

[Rocl]

MSQ:

PICK UP THAT PHONE BECAUSE MOOSE'S BEEN CALLING FOOOOOOOREVER. If there was any doubt in your mind whatsoever that Shadowhunter is Gaius, the game bludgeons it over your head by zooming in on the only non-Ascian mask around his waist... a perfect replica of the fallen Legatus'. And what other pureblood Garlean would have a bone to pick with Ascians while having history with the Scions?

Tsukoyomi.... well... it was obvious, I guess, but I was rooting for Asura. Maxima's characterization was spot on, a nice middling ground of devote Imperial but not a cartoon villain. The trial was pretty beautifully done, and while I don't necessary ... sympathize? with Yotsuyu, I feel like she got a nice clean arc (UNLIKE GAIUS, BUT THAT'S CHANGING, BOYS AND GIRLS)

Four Lords:

This felt a lot like a filler episode, but I'm glad we got Genbu's backstory of how he met Tenzen. Old Lalafell are terrifying to look at.

Ridorana:

hooooooooo boy, there's a lot there. I love all the call backs, including Belias' adds being the Belias-Egi from 2.0's SMN finale. What a clever way to use Yiamzat. Also I love how the "lore" panels are simply the destroyed constructs reminding you what multiples of 3, 4, 5 and which primes you may encounter in the coming battle. Garlemald being descended from Goug was quite the twist--I wasn't really on board with the idea (and am still skeptical) but the throughline of both peoples being unable to manipulate aether is pretty hard to ignore. I dislike the idea of auracite being "manufactured" given our run-ins with white auracite.

I supposed, however, that they may be drawing a line with 'manufactured auracite' and 'natural auracite' much like Ivalice did with nethicite. At least, I hope.

We're led to believe Construct 8 created the cataract with one of its weapons in battle with Ramza during the Zodiac Brave Story. (Jenomis says this in post-scenario dialogue) While a nice nod to FFT, this confuses me since 8 was a friend/optional unit to recruit in that game. So I'm curious about this conflict with Ramza! I also enjoy S'yahn Tia's theory that our next duty in the Ivalice storyline might be going down inside the cataract to an Airship Graveyard... the Necrohol of Mullonde and all that... where we might fight Altima--the Lucavi who possesses Alma in the original Tactics!

Coupled with the twin auracite seemingly speaking to Alma, Ramza, and Jenomis I'm very worried for the future of the Lexentales.

[Jonnycbad]

4.3 MSQ Ending:

It's clear that Zenos probably did a body swap with an Ascian, as his soul is now in the Katana-wielding Soldier, evident by how he was able to unleash a burst of aether from swinging his blade, and his banter about continuing the hunt from the one who defeated him. I imagine the Ascian infiltrated the Empire a while ago and made a pact with Zenos that should he be defeated, they will resurrect his body and swap bodies with him to further their goals. Only Ascians deal with summoning, so it's very clear that an Ascian is possessing Zenos' body, like how Lahabrea did with Thancred. What's more is that Zenos is always simple-minded and has a 1-track mind, whereas the "Zenos" we see in Asahi's flashback is a soft-spoken, well-spoken, and cunning man, as opposed to Zenos' gregarious style of speaking.

[Mieck]

Main Scenario Quests

Bit like the song at the end of Deadpool 2...

HO-LEE SH*TBALLS

Anyways, well done SE. Very decent chunk of story, even though plenty of the primal stuff was seen from a mile away. The Burn was a brilliant section, and I think it gives us pointers to our routes into Garlemald - through GaiusNotGaiusButReallyIsGaius "Shadowhunter" and via any ties Thancred manages to forge with counter-imperial elements (or, Populares elemnts, for that matter) in the empire's Western provinces.



Maybe they will give us Thancred roleplaying parts in the next few patches? That would be pretty awesome. And I think Zenos' body swapping into the soldier could be just like the Sahagin priest in 2.2, and we might be able to tick off another comparison between the artificial and real Echo, as opposed to any Ascian involvement.

Four Lords


Ivalice

So Goug is the lands the Garleans were forced from? I guess that's why they came back in this direction in the first throes of their conquest? Unfinished business...

Misc

[Belhi]

MSQ:

I really liked this MSQ. I think they handled Yotsuyu really well. It wasn't a redemption, which would have felt kind of cheap and repetitive after Fordola but was in many ways a tragic tale. Tsuyu was what Yotsuyu could have been. However in the end she was just too broken inside and too laden with torment, spite and a degree of guilt to find a redemption. However in the end she died at peace after killing the people who were her primary tormentors. While I kind of really wanted to kick Asahi's ass I am quite glad Yotsuyu got that kill and perhaps ironically actually caused the peace negotiations to work out.

I was a bit surprised Illidibus was using Zenos corpse but it fits. The moment we got the echo vision I found his attitude not in sync with the Zenos we now. The discovery that the real Zenos is kicking around in the body of an Elezen and more over is still hunting us adds a fascinating wildcard which I am sure will screw with both us and perhaps our ascian enemy's plans. It will be quite ironic if they find themselves on the receiving end of a enemy that is prone to body hopping every time you kill them.

Regardless I think its all but certain we are going to Garlemald proper next expansion. So much is pointing to it now. Even our final part. With Ascian infiltration of Empire we have reason to go too beyond changing Garlemald's stance on conquest. I do suspect however Varis's days are numbered. One way or another I suspect he will be taken out, perhaps even by the now body hoping Zenos looking to so chaos and discord.

Also as much as I hate to say it Shadowhunter is almost painfully obviously Gaius. The age, weapon, fighting style and even past history with the Scions fits. Plus he would have a reason for fighting Ascians after getting screwed over by one. I will admit I am not a fan of the Gaius returning thing. I tend to find people over idolised him and ignored that while for a Garlean general he was more open minded he still did a lot of bad stuff. Regardless, I am open to it but would have probably preferred a new character.

Alliance Raid:

[SynthielLyrin]

Here goes nothing and I hope this works...

Well, that threw us for a loop. Alphinaud was heading straight for a viper's nest, and that's a surprising stop...
I'm glad Maxima seems to not be hostile. Though, that seems to be protecting him little, if the Emperor's guard shot at him. Wonder if he will be of help later, or if Alphinaud and him are doomed. I hope not though...
I'm Exceedingly Curious as to these Shadowhunters; how did they kill so many ascians? Without auracite? -Two- of the masks were red, which is the most intriguing, since those are the worst to fight. And what's best, they're an unknown-unknown to Elidibus, so I doubt that snake has a counter (let alone knowledge) that someone's hunting his kind of prey successfully.
ALSO: AN AREA ENTIRELY VOID OF AETHER. What the hell even happened there? Was it just primals? Did we have a mini-version of whatever the hell went down in the 13th? ... why the hell are there people hidden there?