What if we got the Sub-Job System in FFXIV?

[Ameela]

With just what's in the post, why would any healer pick White Mage?

It doesn't seem to be suggesting taking anything away from current class kits, so a healer picking WHM would mean having two res buttons. Lightspeed feels like the better example.

Then that'd mean White Mage is completely useless as a sub job for every job aside from maybe Black Mage and then it's a choice between whatever other job offers the biggest benefit. You already see this with the current cross-role system - Eye for an Eye isn't a bad ability by any means, but there are simply much better options so there's no reason to ever take it.

[Sarynth]

It'd also mean White Mage is the only sub job worth taking on any healer so what's the point?

Could you imagine whm/sch though :3

[Freyt]

It'd also mean White Mage is the only sub job worth taking on any healer so what's the point?

First, these are just examples. If you don't like the examples, then envision an example that you do like. Second, Astrologian and Scholar picking Raise would be immensely dumb, considering they already have revival spells. Third, any tank or physical DPS, in addition to BLM, could utilize it.

The point is that if you're confident in your ability to stay alive but don't want to join as a healer, then you can account for the shortcomings of those who are likely to die especially if it is the healer. It isn't so powerful considering the only job that could utilize it with Swiftcast here is BLM, which simply puts it on the same level as RDM and SMN.

[Ameela]

First, these are just examples. If you don't like the examples, then envision an example that you do like.

If AST gave you Lightspeed every single caster would take it as it's too good of a skill to pass up, it literally makes a majority of casts instant for 10 seconds and reduces MP costs by 50% with 0 downsides.
I have a hard time thinking of what SCH could even give considering how much that job is about the synergy between all its different skills. This is also the case for Red Mage apart from Embolden I guess, unless a sub job would literally mean letting you use all of a job's skills in conjunction with your current ones which is just... horrible for balance purposes...
Everything else is just stuff that was already in the old cross-class system anyway: Internal Release, Mantra, Blood for Blood...
I don't like any example I or anyone else can think of, as this is a silly subject in my opinion, every job should be tightly designed in a way that it can work well with its own kit, otherwise you're just making every job feel like the same thing. This is a problem games like FFVI and FFVII face: when everyone can have every skill, what seperates the characters from each other (or in this case, the jobs)
I think they should just remove all this cross-class and role skill nonsense and give every job a fully functional kit that fits their class identity and is fun to use.

It isn't so powerful considering the only job that could utilize it with Swiftcast here is BLM, which simply puts it on the same level as RDM and SMN.

No it doesn't, have you ever thought about why BLM doesn't have a raise when every other caster in the game does?
It's because raising someone is meant to be a huge MP dump, you're not supposed to do it often, now what core part of BLM's kit goes against this design choice I wonder...
Also, in this hypothetical scenario, BLM is the only class in the game that would benefit from having White Mage as a sub job, as there's no other rez-less jobs with an insta cast, and you'll be hard pressed to find even healers doing slow raises outside of 24-mans.

[Freyt]

I don't like any example I or anyone else can think of, as this is a silly subject in my opinion, every job should be tightly designed in a way that it can work well with its own kit, otherwise you're just making every job feel like the same thing.

You're under the mistaken assumption that sub-jobs have to provide abilities that already exist. I think you could think of some kind of scenario involving sub-jobs that you would appreciate, and if you can't, then I would suggest that you're not thinking hard enough.

[Wyvernheart]

So what if one is better suited for party or raid play. Some subs were better for solo play and I for one liked the solo play of xi. This game could do well from that style of open world. Also it's just so cool and so ff. Bring us the joy of /subs and merits and unique gear customization. Slow down on the upwards progression.

[AxlStream]

Wouldn't add anything. People would follow what is best from top tier content creator like Xeno is for WARs. MMOs have no customization. What you perceived as customization was illusion of choice.

[Pastahnak]

This game isn't built with sub jobs in mind and would probably mean a total rework of every current job to accommodate the ability of sub jobs. If that was the case we'd more than likely get no new job for 5.0, but also a year of fumbling around trying to keep everything balanced in a new system they aren't used to. This game in general is also heavily instanced and with very defining roles so am I just screwed in a dungeon if some idiot wants to sub tank for no reason on his dps. And worst of all PF would more than likely just straight up block u for picking anything but the most optimal. If u want the sub job feel ff11 is still up and running and u can have the ff11 community shoe horn u into the wildly unbalanced end game meta they have, hope u like blue mage or summoner.

[Kaliesto]

Much as I like the idea, I can imagine certain groups of people are going to start causing problems for other players in raids.

I don't think people need more headaches from the chuckleheads...in short "we can't have nice things".

[Tizzy_Tormentor]

Sub jobs are a nice idea in concept but they are very hard to implement properly in an MMO, especially when the balancing is already quite fickle.

I too would like to see more character growth, but at the end of the day its not that kind of game and ultimately would require too much rework, it would also be nigh impossible to balance, even in FFXI, the term "balance" is laughable, people already complain about the attitude towards the meta comp, imagine that but also taking into account a sub job.