What if we got the Sub-Job System in FFXIV?

[Freyt]

Basically I feel that something like a sub-job system or any sort of customization is the most direct way to further the depth of the overall gameplay.

These could amount to less single abilities, such as Raise being available should you choose white mage, Lightspeed if you choose Astrologian, or Chain Stratagem should you choose Scholar. It could include passive traits, such as increased running speed if you choose Ninja, or Dualcast if you choose Red Mage. Some of these abilities are rather powerful, and many of these address many of the issues player face in choosing specific jobs. Choosing Black Mage would be less concerning during fights with lots of movement, if they only had Red Mages Dualcast. Choosing a job without any form of resurrection is less concerning when it can be made available to you regardless.

[Ameela]

Choosing a job without any form of resurrection is less concerning when it can be made available to you regardless.

It'd also mean White Mage is the only sub job worth taking on any healer so what's the point?

[Wyvernheart]

So what if one is better suited for party or raid play. Some subs were better for solo play and I for one liked the solo play of xi. This game could do well from that style of open world. Also it's just so cool and so ff. Bring us the joy of /subs and merits and unique gear customization. Slow down on the upwards progression.

[AxlStream]

Wouldn't add anything. People would follow what is best from top tier content creator like Xeno is for WARs. MMOs have no customization. What you perceived as customization was illusion of choice.

[Enkidoh]

It'd also mean White Mage is the only sub job worth taking on any healer so what's the point?

This^ This is why the sub-job system in FFXI did not work as well as it seemed - it basically became not "mix and match Jobs to your heart's content", but more "find the sub that gives the best benefit to your main Job and only use that", specifically stat increases and especially abilities that it could use. Some Jobs due to restrictions simply were terrible when subbed (like BRD), and there were some that were pretty much "the meta" - if you had anything other than this when trying to do anything in the game you were laughed at for being "gimp", even if the sub you chose was actually useful (I don't know how many times I got harassed as a WAR main equipping MNK as a sub, simply because players were abusing NIN as a tank sub job for Utsusemi and refused to consider anything else - MNK was actually a very useful and powerful sub Job for WAR.).

Because of this nonsense, I am now vehemently against any kind of sub Job system being implemented here in FFXIV, and luckily it seems Yoshi has also seen this problem and is mindful of it, and thus why you will not see anything of it's like here.

[Sairys]

It'd also mean White Mage is the only sub job worth taking on any healer so what's the point?

With just what's in the post, why would any healer pick White Mage?

It doesn't seem to be suggesting taking anything away from current class kits, so a healer picking WHM would mean having two res buttons. Lightspeed feels like the better example.

[Ameela]

With just what's in the post, why would any healer pick White Mage?

It doesn't seem to be suggesting taking anything away from current class kits, so a healer picking WHM would mean having two res buttons. Lightspeed feels like the better example.

Then that'd mean White Mage is completely useless as a sub job for every job aside from maybe Black Mage and then it's a choice between whatever other job offers the biggest benefit. You already see this with the current cross-role system - Eye for an Eye isn't a bad ability by any means, but there are simply much better options so there's no reason to ever take it.

[Shurrikhan]

Can't like this quote hard enough.

Anyway, devs have be so opposed to the "subclass" idea that there have been stated plans to remove base classes from the game just to make the job system simpler.

Also OP, please don't pull that "but more options" line, because that just creates another illusion of choice that led to the role ability system we have today.

I'd be fine with being forced to become the job to continue, but the idea of starting as a Paladin when it's supposed to be an insular sect of historic palace guards who are fairly untrusting of outsiders, or as part of an ancient nigh-extinct order of spellweaver is... off-putting to say the least.

But you walk an incredibly thin line with that last comment. As a warrant, that scarcely differs in essence from even the idea of having multiple jobs. Is anything but the meta an illusion of choice (despite, even, that meta redefining itself at times)? Or are those outliers just victims of poor balance, rather than development time apparently all just spent on smoke and mirrors?

I'll agree that intentionally situational skills that nonetheless have no real narrowing factor beyond the loss of maybe Second Wind in certain fights are pure bloat, an illusion of choice at best, even, but to imply that any and all options are fated to meet the same end is ridiculous. Such is no more an illusion of choice than one's choice of job-- a compromise, perhaps, to a given player within a certain composition on a certain fight within a certain patch, but more importantly just a failure on the developers' part to appropriately balance jobs around flavor, rather than niche, or to at least allow fights to be attempted by varying compositions of said niches. That's not some inevitability: it's a screw-up. And it can therefore be remedied.

Personally, I couldn't care less about sub-jobs or the like at this point, simply because the game has virtually nothing to support or contextualize character development outside of the generic face of "WoL, slayer of gods and fetcher of wine", but if that context actually existed, I would love to have more available to me by which to create my own character. There just isn't presently the battle, lore, dialogue, pacing, content openness, or virtually any other form of context to warrant it. This game is as barebones, if not more so, than most one-class-per-character MMOs in that regard.

[Pastahnak]

This game isn't built with sub jobs in mind and would probably mean a total rework of every current job to accommodate the ability of sub jobs. If that was the case we'd more than likely get no new job for 5.0, but also a year of fumbling around trying to keep everything balanced in a new system they aren't used to. This game in general is also heavily instanced and with very defining roles so am I just screwed in a dungeon if some idiot wants to sub tank for no reason on his dps. And worst of all PF would more than likely just straight up block u for picking anything but the most optimal. If u want the sub job feel ff11 is still up and running and u can have the ff11 community shoe horn u into the wildly unbalanced end game meta they have, hope u like blue mage or summoner.

[Kaliesto]

Much as I like the idea, I can imagine certain groups of people are going to start causing problems for other players in raids.

I don't think people need more headaches from the chuckleheads...in short "we can't have nice things".