What's the point of reporting cheating if SE doesn't even look into it?

[weedlord]

Since Patch 4.3 dropped, Leviathan server's market has been dominated by one crafter, FL. His gear is signed by a crafter in Sargatanas, AR. Both of these characters have very little PVE accomplishments, solo FCs with multiple cowl wearing alts with similar name schemes, just high enough level to have retainer access. The crafter himself is online 24/7, always crafting.

Where it gets dicey is the frequency in which he undercuts. He cycles his alts every 5 minutes or so, undercutting by 1 to a certain threshold, on every piece of endgame gear in the game. The alts log on near scattered summoning bells, change listings, log off, and this continues throughout the day.

Multiple crafters on Leviathan have witnessed this, experienced frustration, observed the alts, and decided to file reports with SE's "Special Task Force." If SE performed even a cursory search of this guy, it'd be pretty clear the undercuts are being automated, the crafting is also quite likely being automated, and it's all almost certainly fueling large scale RMT over multiple servers.

Instead, FL now owns a mansion on Leviathan, with his retainer alts in a different FC.

Why even give us the option to report cheating?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Believe me, people have been asking this for ages now. Cheating has only gotten worse now that more people are becoming aware SE does virtually nothing about it. Cactuar has a similar issue with on particular crafter listing several thousand potions at any given time.

Until it actually impacts them financially, SE doesn't care enough to bother. Or they assume it's not nearly the issue it's become because JP servers do not have this problem.

[Dustytome]

I really think they need to either have special task force teams in each region or train the GMs in each region to be able to deal with these issues directly and then forward information on to the STF so that tools for automated detection and further training can be developed. There's only a handful of people on the STF and we don't even know if any of them are fluent in the languages the reports are coming in as other than perhaps Foxclon, but he's got multiple departments under him to keep up with.

The other issue I have is the punishment for botting. A 3 day ban isn't going to do anything when they get to keep their house (houses more like it), gil and levels they likely didn't get legitimately.

[Rufalus]

Oh ok, I never thought of undercutter bots somehow. That explains the unusual activity I saw in the gridania market area over a long period of time by a guy who I've seen botting others things. He must have also been automating undercuts. Some veteran players have been botting for years but never banned due to not admitting it in-game.

[JunseiKei]

~The complaint~

Unless you can provide proof that he is actually botting, the player in question is not cheating. Certainly being amoral, but not cheating.

There's no rules against:
- undercutting
- have multiple ALTs to gain retainer access
- have poorly geared ALTs
- be online 24/7
- a single player owning a mansion
- having ALTs in another FC, different from the main character
- wanting to craft and pay little attention to anything else

What is against the rules:
- automation

You'd need to file a report attacking the automation with proof of automation. Having something like a video of the crafter literally crafting a full 24 hours might be a good indication of actual automation, especially if this happens multiple days in a row (because there are days even I've marathoned play up over 24 hours).

Without proof, you're just leading GMs on a wild goose chase. Even if you have the player in question, actually combing logs for "proof of cheating" is a massive endeavor (coming from someone who has done this). You need concise information. Without this, it probably gets thrown into a "not enough information" pile. That's usually the #1 reason reports don't get looked into. This is not something unique to SE, either - this is pretty universal for all MMOs.

Also note, I'm not arguing against your observations. I'm just giving you the business take of the issue.

[weedlord]

Unless you can provide proof that he is actually botting

how does the burden of proof fall on the shoulders of the players, that have arbitrary rules for what even can be used as proof? when you have a number of players all saying something, it's worth looking into. and as i said, even a tiny amount of investigation would make it clear that it's being automated. the issue is there's no investigation occurring, point blank period. if there were, something would be done about it.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Unless you can provide proof that he is actually botting, the player in question is not cheating.

The issue is SE makes it virtually impossible to provide evidence because unless the person openly acknowledges they've been cheating, they won't even look at it. People have live Twitch streams with someone speed hacking and SE claimed it inadmissible. I, myself, have caught someone in Eureka who upon death spammed every oGCD they had, on cue, in a perfect sequence, every single time. Protect, Tetra, Esuna, Lucid Dreaming, Benediction. And that was only one aspect of the obvious botting done. I'll go you one better. You can search Youtube for PvP cheaters and two players outright say they cheat (win trade) because SE won't do anything about, so they stopped caring. And they're 100% right.

SE's own policies and passive response has long shot them in the foot.

[NessaWyvern]

I wonder if the guy can be reported for Inappropriate behaviour, as the description for it is as follows:

"Inappropriate Behavior
Behavior intended to prevent or hinder other players from fully enjoying the game is prohibited. While SQUARE ENIX encourages unique play styles, SQUARE ENIX may penalize players who hinder or diminish the quality of game play for others through inappropriate behavior"

It's safe to say, this guy is hindering the enjoyment of the game.

[JunseiKei]

The issue is SE makes it virtually impossible to provide evidence because unless the person openly acknowledges they've been cheating, they won't even look at it. People have live Twitch streams with someone speed hacking and SE claimed it inadmissible. I, myself, have caught someone in Eureka who upon death spammed every oGCD they had, on cue, in a perfect sequence, every single time. Protect, Tetra, Esuna, Lucid Dreaming, Benediction. And that was only one aspect of the obvious botting done. I'll go you one better. You can search Youtube for PvP cheaters and two players outright say they cheat (win trade) because SE won't do anything about, so they stopped caring. And they're 100% right.

Yeah, those kinds of things should nail those players. (Maybe not YouTube or Twitch - it's a really grey area and games aren't supposed to take "evidence" outside the game as evidence. Doctoring and taken out of context to use as revenge against someone are actual concerns). However, admitting in game, definitely should.

Hopefully they weren't just 'caught' and reports were actually sent. The more reports from multiple people, the better. Exact time and date generate faster responses than just a name and location with a date.

how does the burden of proof fall on the shoulders of the players, that have arbitrary rules for what even can be used as proof? when you have a number of players all saying something, it's worth looking into. and as i said, even a tiny amount of investigation would make it clear that it's being automated. the issue is there's no investigation occurring, point blank period. if there were, something would be done about it.

Again, the amount of time needed to simply find something in logs is.. massive. To put it simply, when I GM'd, just to see how combing logs worked, I had a time frame and a date for an item I lost. I had the name of the item.

...It took me a week of looking to find the item through logs to see what a certain action would look like in the log (I discarded the item). "Tiny bit of investigation" is a massive understatement. I think finding a needle in a haystack is easier to find. Different, older game though. Maybe they have an easier process with FFXIV. Maybe they don't. I just know how horrible it was from personal experience.

Oh yeah, that's with a me being curious situation, looking into only my character, not looking into tickets or in game responses, working an 8 hour shift. SE might even have a ticket quota (yes, this is a thing). Yeah. Take that into consideration with 200,000 players. Everyone might not file a ticket, but a ticket is far faster to file than actually doing a "tiny bit of investigation."

[MoroMurasaki]

I think the issue is currently the only way that SE will do anything about botting is for the botter to admit they are botting.

Imagine if you could just rob banks all day and have literally no chance of any negative consequences as long as you never said out loud "I rob banks."

No one would ever get caught because all you have to do is not give yourself up.

I think when you have the overwhelming amount of evidence that exists against some of these botters (I'm passively familiar with the Cactuar one Bourne mentioned, there is a lot and its very obvious) then SE is obligated to dive a bit deeper.

Send them a random GM tell, see how long it takes for a response. Test the waters at least. Destroying ingame economies has a negative impact on player experience and SE should care about that.

Edit: Also I think if word got out that a few of these people experienced real consequences many others would fall in line or be discouraged from continuing.