What's the point of reporting cheating if SE doesn't even look into it?

[Awha]

The issue is SE makes it virtually impossible to provide evidence because unless the person openly acknowledges they've been cheating, they won't even look at it. People have live Twitch streams with someone speed hacking and SE claimed it inadmissible. I, myself, have caught someone in Eureka who upon death spammed every oGCD they had, on cue, in a perfect sequence, every single time. Protect, Tetra, Esuna, Lucid Dreaming, Benediction. And that was only one aspect of the obvious botting done. I'll go you one better. You can search Youtube for PvP cheaters and two players outright say they cheat (win trade) because SE won't do anything about, so they stopped caring. And they're 100% right.

SE's own policies and passive response has long shot them in the foot.

Even then the action SE takes is a joke, our FC reported a member that we caught botting in front lines during the garo event after we approached him about it in game he did admit to botting in guild chat. He got a three day suspension since it was his first offense. Yet people get 240 hours (10 days) for naming and shaming on the forums. LOL

[Jijifli]

You'd need to file a report attacking the automation with proof of automation. Having something like a video of the crafter literally crafting a full 24 hours might be a good indication of actual automation, especially if this happens multiple days in a row (because there are days even I've marathoned play up over 24 hours).

This is false. Square refuses to take any proof of ToS breaking unless it happens in their chat services. I reported a player for teleport hacking and botting back in HW, with video proof, even /following one teleport that didn't go too far to break it. Nothing was done, in fact, was told because it was a video, I COULD have altered it to make it look like he was teleporting when he wasn't.

I think the issue is currently the only way that SE will do anything about botting is for the botter to admit they are botting.

Which goes to my second point, that even then it's not 100% confirmed, or at least, not a tough ban. I did have someone admit in chat that he botted, which was how he easily afforded his raid food and potions for statics, as he literally never played anything otherwise.

Still see him around.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

This is false. Square refuses to take any proof of ToS breaking unless it happens in their chat services. I reported a player for teleport hacking and botting back in HW, with video proof, even /following one teleport that didn't go too far to break it. Nothing was done, in fact, was told because it was a video, I COULD have altered it to make it look like he was teleporting when he wasn't.



Which goes to my second point, that even then it's not 100% confirmed, or at least, not a tough ban. I did have someone admit in chat that he botted, which was how he easily afforded his raid food and potions for statics, as he literally never played anything otherwise.

Still see him around.

See, I could even give them a pass on that, though claiming people could edit video evidence or Twitch streams is laughable. Regardless, all they need to do is shadow the reported person for a few days. If someone is following a predictable pattern, in a constant loop, flag them as suspicious and continue to keep an eye on them. You'll inevitably gather enough evidence through sheer consistency. And as Moro said, it only takes a few examples of permabans to get people to stop.

[MrKusakabe]

Unless you can provide proof that he is actually botting, the player in question is not cheating. Certainly being amoral, but not cheating.
[...]

If it walks like a duck, if it quaks like a duck,...

[Nixxe]

Unless you can provide proof that he is actually botting, the player in question is not cheating. Certainly being amoral, but not cheating.

There's no rules against:
- undercutting
- have multiple ALTs to gain retainer access
- have poorly geared ALTs
- be online 24/7
- a single player owning a mansion
- having ALTs in another FC, different from the main character
- wanting to craft and pay little attention to anything else

What is against the rules:
- automation

You'd need to file a report attacking the automation with proof of automation. Having something like a video of the crafter literally crafting a full 24 hours might be a good indication of actual automation, especially if this happens multiple days in a row (because there are days even I've marathoned play up over 24 hours).

Without proof, you're just leading GMs on a wild goose chase. Even if you have the player in question, actually combing logs for "proof of cheating" is a massive endeavor (coming from someone who has done this). You need concise information. Without this, it probably gets thrown into a "not enough information" pile. That's usually the #1 reason reports don't get looked into. This is not something unique to SE, either - this is pretty universal for all MMOs.

Also note, I'm not arguing against your observations. I'm just giving you the business take of the issue.

What kind of game would make players prove someone is botting? Without a statement from that person (which could be explained away by saying they lied anyway), there's very little a player could do to prove it. In most games, you simply report the person and then the company investigates it in some fashion. Blizzard, for instance, absolutely will launch their own review of the player to see if they can detect botting, though they may not punish them right away, as they prefer to punish botting in waves in order to catch as many people as possible.

[NessaWyvern]

I wonder if the guy can be reported for Inappropriate behaviour, as the description for it is as follows:

"Inappropriate Behavior
Behavior intended to prevent or hinder other players from fully enjoying the game is prohibited. While SQUARE ENIX encourages unique play styles, SQUARE ENIX may penalize players who hinder or diminish the quality of game play for others through inappropriate behavior"

It's safe to say, this guy is hindering the enjoyment of the game.

[MoroMurasaki]

I think the issue is currently the only way that SE will do anything about botting is for the botter to admit they are botting.

Imagine if you could just rob banks all day and have literally no chance of any negative consequences as long as you never said out loud "I rob banks."

No one would ever get caught because all you have to do is not give yourself up.

I think when you have the overwhelming amount of evidence that exists against some of these botters (I'm passively familiar with the Cactuar one Bourne mentioned, there is a lot and its very obvious) then SE is obligated to dive a bit deeper.

Send them a random GM tell, see how long it takes for a response. Test the waters at least. Destroying ingame economies has a negative impact on player experience and SE should care about that.

Edit: Also I think if word got out that a few of these people experienced real consequences many others would fall in line or be discouraged from continuing.

[Millen1]

Having played since 2013 beta and never taken a break of more than a week or two here and there, botting is here to stay. I play on ps4 and finding a PC bot is pretty easy, they are not all bots, you just need to watch them for a bit. The one thing that gets me to walk away from someone that appears to be botting, a PSN tag. If they have it they are not botting (too my knowledge there are no real PS4 bots). At this point it would be best to just split the servers into PC or PS4. Let PC players ruin their servers, I would like a sever free of bots. Yes, not all PC players bot but enough do to be a pain, sorry guys. I am tried of seeing fun content and watch bots ruin it. I would like to see servers where you can only have a PSN account and that account can not be accessed with a PC copy of the game. Reporting has failed and will never work. SEs lack of interest in taking on bots in any meaningful way has reduced the fun of the game over the years.

HEY SE, YEAH you SE. If I finally stop caring some day I might just switch to PC, it would make life easier in your game. Maybe try a new marketing slogan. "FFXIV, the only game where the producer, dev team and entire staff bot too". "FFXIV, please bot our game, we thank you for your continued support."
'
The only effect this post might have is getting me banned from the forums. It wouldn't surprise me given I only have "Total days subscribed: 1,800". So why keep an active player who actually cares about the game more than the company that produces it. Just saying.....

and a total side note, way to blow it on the fan fest tickets SE. Was hoping to go this year. Bots and hacks took care of that plan in 20 minutes, with no usual active seen by SE.

[MoroMurasaki]

snip

More than 80% of my friends play on PC - this would be the absolute worst thing ever.

Also the ps4 side would essentially have no raid community, there would be no paraers unless they finally sucked it up and included one ingame. Not that it would matter to me at that point, if I couldn't play with my friends I would definitely quit. I'm sure I'm not alone in this.

[HyoMinPark]

Because segregating the servers between PC and PS4 sounds like a great idea. /s

I agree something needs to be done to make SE care more about bots. But the idea above is just ludicrous. I have several friends that play on PS4 - and, likewise when I was on PS4, a lot of my friends were on PC - and I would not like the idea of not being able to play with them. The above solution is another one of those "punish the majority for the actions of the minority" solutions that would hurt far more than it would "help".